1) Comp. is either LotY or done once every 6 months. 2) People write down which level(s) they want in. Heck, we could end up with 40 levels from everyone (could be a good year too, and therefore a big role into why it should be every 6 months). 3) Panel of 4-5 people only needs to say YES or NO (in a majority) for said levels, no need to write any review or explain why they said YES/NO whatsoever. This way you aren't going to lag this up. 4) Levels that pass the panel go into LotY 5) EVERYONE can review the levels (like we normally do) 6) 1-2 people accept/reject votes (with myself already volunteering) 7) RESULTS: tally results from polls, post in conjunction with Category Awards. 8) 9) Thank you for participating.
If you start making exclusives like Council/JC only or specific members it will look bad; likewise I doubt that every person on that panel will really want to do a review on every level; it could be too big of an ask. Also, I don't want to (personally) review every level, but still attain at least 70% of levels being reviewed.
When this actually goes in, I hope people actually vote for more levels instead of just one particular level that 7 other people voted therefore you must too. No. Pick the ones with the LESSER amount of votes.
Good rules there matan!
I'll make first motion to carry the vote as yes to this, anybody second that
Perishingflames Global Moderator [ss:Watercolour] member is offline
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Re: Level of the Month/Year for 2012? « Reply #32 on Nov 30, 2011, 7:47am »
I still think that reviews are unnecessary and only cause less participation. Either way I think it's essential that every person rate every level because not every rates on the same scale and it would be impossible to come up with one scale that works for every person and every level. Say I rate on a 5 being average scale instead of the "normal" 7/8 average but don't review 3 of the 10 levels.. they would get a definite advantage.
I still think that reviews are unnecessary and only cause less participation. Either way I think it's essential that every person rate every level because not every rates on the same scale and it would be impossible to come up with one scale that works for every person and every level. Say I rate on a 5 being average scale instead of the "normal" 7/8 average but don't review 3 of the 10 levels.. they would get a definite advantage.
The panel isn't going to review anything in depth, just Yes/No. Only when it's time for LotY do people give reviews. I think reviews are necessary there because people want to hear what people have to say about a certain level and some people review differently than others. But still, everyone has to vote for everything for it to be fair.
Edit: Maybe rewards should be given to those who review each level; a post count boost perhaps.
« Last Edit: Nov 30, 2011, 8:08am by ktbold12345 »
I still think that reviews are unnecessary and only cause less participation. Either way I think it's essential that every person rate every level because not every rates on the same scale and it would be impossible to come up with one scale that works for every person and every level. Say I rate on a 5 being average scale instead of the "normal" 7/8 average but don't review 3 of the 10 levels.. they would get a definite advantage.
The panel isn't going to review anything in depth, just Yes/No. Only when it's time for LotY do people give reviews. I think reviews are necessary there because people want to hear what people have to say about a certain level and some people review differently than others. But still, everyone has to vote for everything for it to be fair.
Edit: Maybe rewards should be given to those who review each level; a post count boost perhaps.
1) Comp. is either LotY or done once every 6 months. 2) People write down which level(s) they want in. Heck, we could end up with 40 levels from everyone (could be a good year too, and therefore a big role into why it should be every 6 months). 3) Panel of 4-5 people only needs to say YES or NO (in a majority) for said levels, no need to write any review or explain why they said YES/NO whatsoever. This way you aren't going to lag this up. 4) Levels that pass the panel go into LotY 5) EVERYONE can review the levels (like we normally do) 6) 1-2 people accept/reject votes (with myself already volunteering) 7) RESULTS: tally results from polls, post in conjunction with Category Awards. 8) 9) Thank you for participating.
If you start making exclusives like Council/JC only or specific members it will look bad; likewise I doubt that every person on that panel will really want to do a review on every level; it could be too big of an ask. Also, I don't want to (personally) review every level, but still attain at least 70% of levels being reviewed.
When this actually goes in, I hope people actually vote for more levels instead of just one particular level that 7 other people voted therefore you must too. No. Pick the ones with the LESSER amount of votes.
Chalk me up as another person who agrees with everything Matan wrote here. I am leaning towards PF's views on reviewing levels, however. I think numerical scores and a quick 1-2 sentence explanation is all that is really necessary. Hopefully that will encourage more people to vote and review levels - I think making people write long and involved reviews before turned people off from reviewing.
IsraeliRD Administrator Dragon Power Supreme[ss:Default Skin] member is offline
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Re: Level of the Month/Year for 2012? « Reply #36 on Nov 30, 2011, 4:40pm »
I'm okay with 1-2 sentence explanation, sometimes even a few words work; but if we go with PF's direction with no reviews whatsoever I would doubt the legitimacy of some of the actual votes. With an actual explanation it's actually filtering some out on the get go.
Re: Level of the Month/Year for 2012? « Reply #38 on Dec 1, 2011, 7:47am »
I propose that we allow you to either "Like" or "Dislike" levels. No explanation necessary, but an anonymous comment system will be in place so that if inclined, you can post some inane reasoning or simply start a flame war. Download numbers and topic pageviews will also count toward winning the competition.
I propose that we allow you to either "Like" or "Dislike" levels. No explanation necessary, but an anonymous comment system will be in place so that if inclined, you can post some inane reasoning or simply start a flame war. Download numbers and topic pageviews will also count toward winning the competition.
Let's move this into the modern age.
Don't forget the post count, as topics with more posts must mean the level is better.
May as well announce that LotY 2011 had been won by Luke [GG forums].
Marblefire's post was dripping with so much sarcasm that it was almost offensive
ktbold12345 Guest
Re: Level of the Month/Year for 2012? « Reply #40 on Dec 1, 2011, 8:04am »
Are you joking? Because I don't like those ideas at all. As Matan said, if there are no reviews, some people will vote unfairly. The anonymous comment system doesn't work for me (idk if that's even possible) and downloads and pageviews should have NO effect whatsoever. Everyone will download each level and view each page. The own creator could download his level or view his page over and over again to boost points. Plus, that system makes it complicated. I strongly vote against the ideas in your post. Sorry if this is harsh, but not that sorry.
EDIT: I'm going to feel so stupid if you actually were joking.
I'm okay with 1-2 sentence explanation, sometimes even a few words work; but if we go with PF's direction with no reviews whatsoever I would doubt the legitimacy of some of the actual votes. With an actual explanation it's actually filtering some out on the get go.
That's why we would approve reviewers in advance. If they have clear opinions not based on whims.. no need to have them waste time writing thorough reviews.
Also Kwill, feel stupid, because Marblefire's post was dripping with so much sarcasm that it was almost offensive
Re: Level of the Month/Year for 2012? « Reply #44 on Dec 1, 2011, 12:06pm »
I think that the only way to guarantee that voters play every level is to limit the amount of levels allowed to something small (and disregard the vote of anyone who doesn't review all levels). I don't really want to do this, so the second best solution would be a simplified voting scale (maybe "Terrible, OK, Good, Excellent") that would allow for less interpretation and help bring everyone into roughly the same way of thinking.
The problem with the admissions panel is that the members would have to play every level nominated, unless the members were variable. How do we decide who serves? Also, if these levels are going to be played anyway, why have this preliminary stage and then another later on with votes?
Which Category Awards should we use? How much do they count for? If we use the same group as before, I think that ones such as Replayability and Originality should count for more than Level Building.
Perishingflames Global Moderator [ss:Watercolour] member is offline
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Re: Level of the Month/Year for 2012? « Reply #45 on Dec 1, 2011, 12:21pm »
Quote:
If we use the same group as before, I think that ones such as Replayability and Originality should count for more than Level Building.
I honestly think a formal rating scale like that is inane. Why should your "score" be based on arbitrary concepts that you may not consider important? Hell, I expect a level to have good level building/presentation.. if not that's just points off. And what's creativity for if it isn't fun? Correct me if I'm wrong but custom levels are designed to be fun and replayable.. not necessarily showcases of new ways to put platforms together beautifully (sorry Pablo haha). Originality? I don't see how that's different than creativity. Creativity is the ability to envision and create new things, so originality is just a measure of the creativity. And replayability is simply a component of the "fun factor." /why there should be no formal weighted scales for reviewing levels and why fun factor is the only important thing to consider
I don't really want to do this, so the second best solution would be a simplified voting scale (maybe "Terrible, OK, Good, Excellent") that would allow for less interpretation and help bring everyone into roughly the same way of thinking.
Or a smaller number scale. Maybe voting between 1-5 would be better than 1-10; simpler, broader, and easier to interpret. Also, I already suggested in this thread a reward for reviewing every level such as an automatic increase in post count or something along those lines.
I wouldn't have a problem with playing each level that's nominated for LotY. We decide who serves on the panel by volunteering; and we have a PM to Matan with a review of a level, just to prove that we are unbiased and fair. I think the preliminary stage is just to kick out nominated levels that aren't worthy of LotY; although now that you mention it, it seems that it would be kind of redundant because if the levels are nominated, then they are obviously good. How about this: The panel looks at each level, takes the good ones, and puts them in LotY. The community need not nominate anything. Take it or leave it.
Oh, and I say do away with category awards completely. I never liked them, and I think the competition would be smoother w/o them.
The problem with the admissions panel is that the members would have to play every level nominated, unless the members were variable. How do we decide who serves? Also, if these levels are going to be played anyway, why have this preliminary stage and then another later on with votes?
The levels nominated is just a stage to remove crap levels from average plus levels. Average plus levels have a good chance of winning an award of the sort. I presume if we must limit, then we should ask ourselves how. Do we limit the number of levels each member nominates, or the overall number?
Members don't have to be variable. We can decide in advance which members we want in the panel (I presume non-biased good ones ), but the thing is we first need to advertise this "job" and see who we get.
Which Category Awards should we use? How much do they count for? If we use the same group as before, I think that ones such as Replayability and Originality should count for more than Level Building.
Category Awards are the same as always. They count for nothing except give us a specific level that is the best of this kind. They give no points, they deduct no points and they do nothing except sit on someone's chest and that someone can be proud that his level did the best in that particular category. We don't have the semi-best and best LotY categories since those are decided based on votes/reviews.
I think that the only way to guarantee that voters play every level is to limit the amount of levels allowed to something small (and disregard the vote of anyone who doesn't review all levels). I don't really want to do this, so the second best solution would be a simplified voting scale (maybe "Terrible, OK, Good, Excellent") that would allow for less interpretation and help bring everyone into roughly the same way of thinking.
I'd say reviewing of at least 70% of levels. I probably won't do all, I can't tell you right now. If we say 100% we're gonna limit the number of people reviewing. I'm sure if we set it on something like 70% everyone would be happy. We don't need a simplified voting scale as what you think is an OK level could be excellent for someone else. The reviewing/voting gives us a more indicative to what an average score would be.
Originality? I don't see how that's different than creativity.
I find the two different. IMO originality means showing us new stuff (see PQ and my levels) while creativity is more of being innovative. Being able to put together a level that has some new stuff is damn cool. Being creative means taking that and doing something good with it. If you got nothing original, doesn't mean you can't do creative. I am going out of my way to try and put really good levels even if its the same gameplay you find in 1000 other levels.
I also ask about the gameplay, which I find very important and probably more than others.
Or a smaller number scale. Maybe voting between 1-5 would be better than 1-10; simpler, broader, and easier to interpret.
True, but because we have so many categories to consider, it's preferred to go with 1-10 scale. Note most reviewing sites; once they reach a lot of categories they start going 1-10. Those that remain with 1-5 also give you in halves so you start seeing 4.5/5 (which is 9/10 for the mathematically challenged) so there's no differece there.
Also, I already suggested in this thread a reward for reviewing every level such as an automatic increase in post count or something along those lines.
No to post count. Want higher post count? be more active, post more.
...if the levels are nominated, then they are obviously good.
In previous years we had nominated levels by others and some of the nominations were absolutely horrific. I prefer having a method to kick out levels so that we can be more certain that levels will get 5+ on LotY. Mind you, in LotY the levels are judges far more harshly, so 5+ on LotY means above average for LotM (6-7).
The panel looks at each level, takes the good ones, and puts them in LotY. The community need not nominate anything. Take it or leave it.
I'd hate to be on the panel in 2007-2009. I seriously would. I'd also hate to be on the panel for 2011/2012 because there are likely to be 100+ levels. I can't be bothered playing 100+ levels.
Marblefire's post was dripping with so much sarcasm that it was almost offensive
Perishingflames Global Moderator [ss:Watercolour] member is offline
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Re: Level of the Month/Year for 2012? « Reply #48 on Dec 1, 2011, 12:46pm »
POSTS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.
If anything I would say have a broader range of scores, to include 1/2 scores (basically a scale out of 20 instead of 10). Oftentimes in the past I felt constrained in my scores because something would be about a 6.5 and I would have to round up or down... not fun deciding.
A 0-5 scale doesn't make sense as a simplified 0-10 scale unless you consider 0 to be average. Then 1 would be a good level, 2 great, 3 amazing, 4 freakin' killer, and 5, say.. top 10 levels of all time. But then you run into problems misunderstanding the scale.
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Re: Level of the Month/Year for 2012? « Reply #49 on Dec 1, 2011, 12:49pm »
YES I DID IT BEFORE YOU HA
And if you want 20 then holy crap. Also what you said about 0-5 which I said in my post anyway except mine was a bit different BUT I also agree with you.
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Re: Level of the Month/Year for 2012? « Reply #53 on Dec 3, 2011, 9:50am »
Here are Technostar's words about this now:
"I think we should get started with LotY 2011 very soon if we are to have one. I also agree with these steps for LotY 2011: 1. People submit any levels made this year. 2. A panel of judges decides yes or no for each level. 3. Everyone reviews the levels (with a simple review). 4. 1-2 people accept/reject votes.
"I think we should get started with LotY 2011 very soon if we are to have one. I also agree with these steps for LotY 2011: 1. People submit any levels made this year. 2. A panel of judges decides yes or no for each level. 3. Everyone reviews the levels (with a simple review). 4. 1-2 people accept/reject votes.
Re: Level of the Month/Year for 2012? « Reply #58 on Dec 5, 2011, 11:17am »
@perishingflames - What the hell did you lock the topic for? We can work out the rest of the rules as we go and ask questions when they come up. We don't need to waste time "planning"? Just do the competition already.
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Re: Level of the Month/Year for 2012? « Reply #59 on Dec 5, 2011, 11:41am »
We need to figure out the nominating rules (for example, how many levels can each person nominate; can they nominate their own, a few of their own, or none of their own) and I want to have the up-to-date monthly level packs posted (which as I said will be early january, but probably earlier since I'll get those out of the way before CLA) so people know of all the available levels before people using up their nominations.
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I am leaning towards PF's views on reviewing levels, however. I think numerical scores and a quick 1-2 sentence explanation is all that is really necessary. Hopefully that will encourage more people to vote and review levels - I think making people write long and involved reviews before turned people off from reviewing.
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), but the thing is we first need to advertise this "job" and see who we get.![[image]](http://i.imgur.com/SnVvLv8.gif "[image]")