lock Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper

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19 Jun 2015 23:46 #1 by Aayrl
Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper was created by Aayrl

Hello Marble Blast Community,

Today, we will be discussing a rather sensitive topic in the Marble Blast Community, but we feel it is necessary for us to publicly announce our stance on certain variations of Marble Blast Modifications and why we have chosen our methodology.

Many have asked us regarding the Marble Blast Ultra "PC Port", and why we do not make it available on our website. Just to make it clear, Marble Blast Ultra has never been supported by any members of the Platinum Team. While the Platinum Team have interacted with the "PC Port" to examine the scripting capabilities and engine support, it was ultimately decided it would be impossible to modify to meet the current requirements of the Platinum Team to further develop and enhance the versions of Multiplayer provided in Marble Blast Platinum.

The next topic we must discuss is the team behind Marble Blast Super, which is also behind the Marble Blast Ultra "PC Port" project. We were informed by the Marble Blast Super Team that they were not pleased with the default textures of Marble Blast Ultra. Instead, they purposefully circumvented multiple layers of security protecting PlatinumQuest files located in the Marble Blast Platinum directory, with the intent to access the PlatinumQuest textures and designed similar copies for use in Marble Blast Ultra as well as Marble Blast Super. Members of the Platinum Team arranged a meeting with the senior members of the Super/Ultra team, where the Platinum Team indicated this content must be removed from Marble Blast Ultra and Super immediately. It is worth noting these actions are strictly prohibited and a direct violation of the Marble Blast Community's Terms of Service. Members of the Marble Blast Super/Ultra team have "acknowledged" the Platinum Team's requests, but instead have chosen to ignore them and have claimed the whole of their work as "their own content", keeping the material in their most recent game client. Adding insult to injury, their team members wanted to add an encryption system that is similar to that used in Marble Blast Platinum so that users do not copy their content.

Additionally, some community members argued the points raised in the Marble Blast Super thread posted by members of the Platinum Team. We would like to remind these members that the Community as a whole had made identical comments two years ago on the Old Forums, where members of the Platinum Team attempted to provide constructive criticism on how it could be improved. Several community members even suggested ideas and directed the Super team to examples that would make their mod better. Unfortunately, while some members of the Super team finally took action, the senior members of that team chose to persist in its old ways, and aforementioned examples set to prove that this infringement continues even today. Due to these actions, we cannot formally support or back Marble Blast Super or the Marble Blast Ultra "PC Port" project. Nonetheless, we are not in control over any user who wishes to obtain Marble Blast Super or the Marble Blast Ultra "PC Port", but we are not liable for any consequences caused to any user who obtains these. Furthermore, we will not enforce sanctions against any member who wishes to use these mods.

It is in our best interests, as members of the Community, to follow the guidelines and regulations listed in the Terms of Service and the Rules enforced on the Marble Blast Website and Game Client(s) to ensure the integrity and sustainability of the Community. Our staff will spend countless hours debating topics such as these, and while some may view the ultimate decision(s) that come to pass as unfair or unjust, the conclusions reached must always benefit the protection and longevity of the Community. We hope you understand our reasoning behind this announcement. It is our hope that we may continue to encourage many more of the inspiring minds in our community to fashion new, original and exciting content for all of our members to enjoy for many years to come.

Best regards,
~The Marble Blast Community Staff.

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20 Jun 2015 00:19 #2 by lxgenda
Replied by lxgenda on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
This is just a piece of the whole puzzle. I warned you.

"tl;dr joj" - legenda 2016
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20 Jun 2015 00:21 #3 by Neon_Lightning
Replied by Neon_Lightning on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
feel free to ip ban me

I like pie and hot dogs
Na I'm just being weird
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20 Jun 2015 00:25 #4 by Nockess
Replied by Nockess on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper

Neon Lightning wrote:
feel free to ip ban me


Neon, please - that's not helpful.

Aayrl, you should've gotten the PM I sent you. Please take a look at it.

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20 Jun 2015 00:29 #5 by MatthieuParizeau
Replied by MatthieuParizeau on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
Ok, I'll try to clear this up right now.

MBSuper has never had content from other mods in it and it never will. Everything in Marble Blast Super was created by the MBS team.

MBUltra used to have the level DragonRoom, Megas, Architecture, and other levels. They were removed about 6 months ago or more when we were told not to use them. The PQ levels in MBU are only in there for staff to play, they are not released and never will be. There were never any plans to do so. I just prefer to play them on Ultra because I like the physics better on there.

For having a system like the .pak system in MBP for MBS. That's because we want to protect our own content.

We have remade water and similar things, but our point is not to steal from PQ. We've wanted these features from the beginning. I only recently figured out how to code them.

If mods couldn't share ideas it would really be boring wouldn't it? Just because MBG has a marble doesn't mean we can't make other marble games. It's the same thing.

Our goal is to make the best, most re-playable, fun mod out there. We do not want to take other people's work.

I hope you will understand. I really don't know why people seem to think we are trying to steal from everyone. We aren't and I really don't get it.
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20 Jun 2015 00:39 #6 by Eguy
Replied by Eguy on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
I'm glad that Matt stood up to this matter. I really respect him as a team leader and he wouldn't do anything you described. I can say this because I'm actually part of the team now. I also didn't have anything to do with "intentionally circumventing the features." I'm just going to say that I think a mistake that we all made was continuing to give constructive criticism after the first of it wasn't taken into account. If the earlier criticisms weren't taken, it's most likely that the mod wanted to find it's own breath. Instead of pressuring them to acquire criticism, we should've let them make the mod based on their own creativity. Maybe this would fail, but so what if it did. It would equally likely succeed. I hope we learn from this mistake.

"it's the internet eguy. where children are men. men are monkeys, and women are PQ."
-Jeff 2014
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20 Jun 2015 01:49 #7 by Blasted
Replied by Blasted on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
(If this post doesn't belong here, move it to the MBSuper topic)

From what I gather, the members of MBS are not taking other members' criticisms to make the mod better. It is kind of sad because MBS has fallen from grace(it is still not dead really). Level previews need to be a lot better. Show them many features of the level. Make it fun and enjoyable. Look at Collector's World, a few people seem to like it and I took criticisms from the previous four previous MP levels (before they got cancelled) and put them in this level.

MBUltra PC is one of these mods that I have not played because of lack of interest. Copies of other levels, e.g. PQ MP levels, is not a good thing. Make MBU better or don't do it at all. Taking textures from other mods won't make MBU PC better either.

MBS staff, please take every criticism on sight. If you don't, your mod will stay exactly the same.

"Don't overanalyze or take deeply to heart any sort of misunderstanding, harsh criticism, or even slightly negative interaction." -Eguy 2017

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20 Jun 2015 03:52 - 20 Jun 2015 03:55 #8 by HiGuy
Replied by HiGuy on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
In the attempt to not continue the he-said she-said debate that's been happening, I can provide some examples against your main points below:

Matthieu Parizeau wrote:
MBSuper has never had content from other mods in it and it never will. Everything in Marble Blast Super was created by the MBS team.

This is untrue. Much of your MultiPlayer code comes illegitimately from a project on which Jeff and I worked back in 2012. Matt was given a copy then to help work on graphics and interface, but he was eventually removed from the project and claims to have deleted the code, despite considerable evidence that he used this code in MBSuper.
See: Examples of multiple places where their code is directly based off ours.

Matthieu Parizeau wrote:
The PQ levels in MBU are only in there for staff to play, they are not released and never will be. There were never any plans to do so.

We have notified you multiple times to not include our content in your mods, yet you still continue to include references to our material and privately distribute our work among your staff. The fact that you have the PQ levels in MBU at all indicates that you were violating our terms of service, and we cannot support or encourage such obvious violations.
See: The Terms of Service , Marble Blast Accounts section 5.D:

Users are prohibited from performing any act through the use of a third party program, the exploitation of errors in design, program bugs, or code inspection, injection and execution that grants the user access to content that is otherwise not accessible ...


Matthieu Parizeau wrote:
If mods couldn't share ideas it would really be boring wouldn't it? Just because MBG has a marble doesn't mean we can't make other marble games. It's the same thing.

Mods are allowed to share ideas, but the extent to which MBSuper has gone is outrageous. Everything from the level select, to the game modes, to the feel, to the textures, all of these are extremely similar or exactly the same as PlatinumQuest. There is even confirmation from members of the MBS staff that it mimics PlatinumQuest. We let this slide for a while because of the reason above, but when the entire game looks like a dumbed-down PQ remake , we felt the need to take action.

We felt this ultimatum was necessary because all previous attempts to contact and reason with the staff of these mods has been futile and led nowhere. Hopefully this will incite them to take action and create actual original material.

PQ in a nutshell
function clientcmd12dothepq() {
    commandToClient(LocalClientConnection, '34onthedancefloor');
}
Last edit: 20 Jun 2015 03:55 by HiGuy. Reason: Against* not for.
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20 Jun 2015 08:15 #9 by Ralph
Replied by Ralph on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
Wow, this story is really complicated.

I remember when I quitted the MBS team for the first time due to the fact that I didn't wanted to be involved into a MBU plagiarism affair, I got insulted and 3 of my YouTube (old) videos were heavily disliked.

You forget a thousand things everyday. Make sure Marble Blast isn't one of 'em.

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20 Jun 2015 13:02 - 20 Jun 2015 13:06 #10 by Aayrl
Replied by Aayrl on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
Hello folks,

Let me first be clear in stating the original news article, posted on the home page of MarbleBlast.com and visible at the beginning of this thread, is not my sole writing, but the agreed article that the entire Marble Blast Community Staff wrote and agreed upon for public view. If you feel you must blame one of us, I'll take the heat for posting the article on the website - but it ultimately reflects the beliefs of the Marble Blast Community Staff as a whole.

Matthieu Parizeau wrote:
If mods couldn't share ideas it would really be boring wouldn't it? Just because MBG has a marble doesn't mean we can't make other marble games. It's the same thing.

I'm a huge advocate for the sharing of knowledge and ideas amongst the mods created by the Marble Blast Community. Personally, I can say that the Platinum Team has worked alongside the Fubar project since its conception. Integration of the Leaderboards Chat System into Fubar is a prime example of the sharing of ideas and direct code. However, did Fubar just up and snag the source code from an available resource? Absolutely not, and this key factor is what sets several examples apart from the issue at hand; Permission.

I sat down, personally, with HiGuy, Jeff, and IsraeliRD way back in 2011 to discuss the possibility of integrating Fubar with the MBP Chat system. The main idea behind it was a unified front where all mods could connect to one another and fashion a seamless online experience. After many months of discussions, it was finally agreed upon that Fubar could include portions of the Leaderboards Chat code, so long as credit was properly granted to those whom developed it. The same day, I officially added The Platinum Team into the credits of Fubar, and to this day I ensure the majority of their code remains in-tact to credit the original authors of the code, rather than claiming it as my own.

To other members of the Super mod, or any other potential mods, I do not wish for this post to discourage you from creating your own amazing versions of Marble Blast. In fact, it is one of the most exciting aspects of our Community. However, all I request each and every one of you to do is simply ASK someone for permission before taking any content behind their back. We also need to show RESPECT and INTEGRITY for decisions made by the respective owners of content. You are all equally entitled to share content amongst yourselves, but please do so in a manner that is agreeable upon by both parties and that it is properly credited.

If you were to write an Essay for one of your classes, you would not browse online for an A+ Essay to hand in and slap your name at the top, would you? These are the same concepts I hope all of our members here follow; you would not simply copy code or material because it is "better" or "more polished" than your own, you must ask for permission before you use any content that is not your sole, original creation.

I did not mean for this article to "make an example" of any person or any development team in particular, but the direct violation of our Terms of Service and the disrespect it shows for the Community as a whole required public response on our part, and I apologize for that, but it was absolutely necessary.

Lastly, I'm told by my fellow Staff members that the issue was resolved over a conference call last evening that I was not able to attend. While I am not sure if I can publicly disclose the details of the conversation that took place, I can assure everyone that the information provided by both HiGuy and our original news post were justified and verified by members of the MBSuper Staff, whom at this point have indicated to us that they will (attempt to) fully comply with our Terms of Service and work to expunge unauthorized material from their game client. Please, feel free to indicate whether or not this is the truth, but this is the knowledge that I have been provided.

Thank you again, everyone, for your understanding. I apologize for the circumstances we find ourselves discussing this weekend, but my hope is that it strengthens our community, both from an intellectual and an emotional standpoint. I am proud to represent and be a part of this Community, and I hope we can all work together to improve the social dynamics of our Community rather than dwindle to the acts we've seen in this discussion and this situation as a whole.

Best regards,
~Aayrl
Marble Blast Community Manager
Last edit: 20 Jun 2015 13:06 by Aayrl.
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20 Jun 2015 15:02 #11 by StewMan46
Replied by StewMan46 on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
That's it. I aint working on MBSuper anymore.
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20 Jun 2015 15:30 #12 by Eguy
Replied by Eguy on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
I don't blame you for quitting. I wonder how many other people the platinum team scared away with this post.

"it's the internet eguy. where children are men. men are monkeys, and women are PQ."
-Jeff 2014
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20 Jun 2015 17:14 #13 by [email protected]
I had a nice wall-of-text to post but it got eaten.

Anyway, tl;dr version is this.

This does feel excessive like Eguy said, but I feel I have underestimated the problems with MBSuper. It is an ugly situation but it needs to be resolved regardless, as letting it slide isn't an option, and the MBSuper thread was going nowhere.

I also don't blame people for quitting, but moreso the fact that some may not want to be affiliated with this mod anymore due to the reasons that has been stated. If I believe the Platinum team to be correct, then they have tried to be reasonable but its been ignored. Something wider-scale needed to be done.

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20 Jun 2015 17:49 #14 by Jeff
Replied by Jeff on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
We're not asking for the projects to die, that doesn't solve or help anything. We're asking to comply with the terms of service for the best interests in preserving the marble blast community as a whole. We did this because we care about the community. I hope that all parties involved and not involved understand that. :)

I am a programmer. Most here know me for being one of the major contributors to Marble Blast Platinum and PlatinumQuest.
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20 Jun 2015 19:10 #15 by Nockess
Replied by Nockess on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
We've taken out the platinum-like textures and Matt is recreating the UQ (PQ-like) textures, so that's out of the way. We've also redone the playmission.gui as well.
We've been asked to change the Help Triggers also and we will get to it. We've been notified about a couple other things (that I don't remember off the top of my head) that we will change sometime soon. We'll get an Administrator in a group chat and show him what we have and what needs to be changed.

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20 Jun 2015 20:11 #16 by Ralph
Replied by Ralph on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
Whoa, slow down, people. This stuff is getting the community into an apocalypse, which I absolutely want to avoid at all costs.

I'm not speaking as an administrator nor a moderator, but for the MBS team members, especially you, Neon, do you think that it's really useful to get on your nerves and start whining "yeah, ban me, i dont give a *QUACK*" ? Do you think it's the best way to react? I don't think so.

Kick my butt if I'm wrong, but why was Marble Blast created, in your opinion? To have long hours of fun or to make people jump onto other people because of some code-stealing scandals?

Think about that, I don't want the community to get through a war again. For me, the only wars that are granted are between mega marbles, and nothing else.

You forget a thousand things everyday. Make sure Marble Blast isn't one of 'em.

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21 Jun 2015 00:09 #17 by Aayrl
Replied by Aayrl on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
I still think a majority of you are missing the critical point of this discussion.

This is not about upsetting other members, this is not about what features are in which modification. This is not about who is responsible for various events that may or may not have transpired.

Simply put, this is about plagiarism, plain and simple. Much like the real world, we cannot tolerate any acts of plagiarism or theft of intellectual property, under the Marble Blast Terms of Service and the original license agreement provided to us, The Community, by the original developers of Marble Blast. While none of the acts can be directly confirmed, connections can be made that bear quite a resemblance to plagiarism, and it is our duty as members of the Marble Blast Community Staff to ensure that activity is halted as soon as it was brought to our attention.

We cannot change what has happened, but we can inform our Community Members what guidelines they can follow to allow our Community to continue to thrive for many years to come. Our simple request is that you develop your own original content and that you respect the content created by your fellow Community Members. If you encounter questionable conflicts of interest, it is our hope that the two parties can reach a peaceful resolution without the intervention of the Marble Blast Community Staff. However, it is our duty to intercept any of these arguments or conflicts to uphold the absolute best standards for our Community.

We sincerely do not wish to upset or disrespect any members of our Community. I deeply apologize for any finger-pointing or direct attacks that have transpired from this event. It is my hope that the Community can learn from these actions and look forward to a brighter, more respectful and tightly connected Community. I know I will do everything in my power to ensure that.

~Aayrl
Marble Blast Community Manager
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21 Jun 2015 02:29 #18 by Endy
Replied by Endy on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
This whole entire mod seems to have caused a giant wreck in the community. It has caused so much drama and conflict, the topic had to be closed.
I am the co-leader of MBS. I have been in the mod since 2013. This mod has changed so much from the beginning. I mean that in a good/bad way.
EVERYTHING in the mod is a PQ-based idea. The main reason this mod is bashed on is because of its unoriginal textures/features.

The screenshots Higuy showed. Its almost as if code was ripped from PQ.

I am quitting FOR GOOD. I don't want to be a part of a train wreck anymore.
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21 Jun 2015 09:19 - 21 Jun 2015 12:35 #19 by SourSpitballs
Replied by SourSpitballs on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
So wait,Now the Leader AND the co-leader left the mod? oh great :( ,i regret all the good things abotu MBS,this mod is dead now,dead.

Marble Blast Boyo
Last edit: 21 Jun 2015 12:35 by SourSpitballs. Reason: I thought i should change my mind up.
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21 Jun 2015 14:17 #20 by Nockess
Replied by Nockess on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper

Emerald Marble wrote:
So wait,Now the Leader AND the co-leader left the mod? oh great :( ,i regret all the good things abotu MBS,this mod is dead
now,dead.


Matt's our new leader, and he's aan awesome one to. He's still in the mod.

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21 Jun 2015 14:23 #21 by SourSpitballs
Replied by SourSpitballs on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
Man,why do mods always start promising,fall,get back up then fall all the way down again? it keeps happening with all mods (excludeing the full release ones.

Marble Blast Boyo
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21 Jun 2015 15:07 #22 by MatthieuParizeau
Replied by MatthieuParizeau on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
MBS is not dead by any means. We work on it loads and loads every day. MBU 1.8 is mainly being worked on by Anthony atm because I'm focusing so much on MBS. MBS can not die. It may go on hold sometimes but it is not dead. Even if everyone quit the mod, I'd finish it myself. That's why I took over as leader. I can not let all my hard work go to waste. I LOVE MBS and I want it to be the best mod there is, and don't worry...IT WILL BE ;)

As for what Endy said, Not everything in the mod is a rip-off of PQ. We do in-fact have unique features that no mod has done before, we are still adding more as time goes on.

Now just an fyi, I've spoken with Jeff and HiGuy and it seems everything that was complained about has been replaced, removed, etc. There should be no more issues with MBS. Last I heard they were going to have a "meeting" about it or something.

~ Matt
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21 Jun 2015 16:09 #23 by [email protected]
Re-reading my own post made me come off quite... bitter? I'm not sure, It didn't feel quite right as it was fairly blunt, then again I suppose I wanted to emphasise what was actually the problem.

I still want MBSuper to actually work and succeed, because no-one is trying to kill of the mod here. Sure, the 'scandal' (unsure how to describe it exactly) has been hard-hitting, and has caused some to leave, but this 'reveal' has succeeded in its purpose of getting change.

So, even though it has been plagued by various events, from a pure MB-player perspective, there's definitely been too many hours put into this to let it die a slow quiet death. If this can be resolved, then great, things can return to a more normal state where suspicion can be replaced with mod hype. Anything that can be done to help the community and spark interest needs to be done after all imo.

Rid the mod of plagiarised assets and maybe the mod can get back onto better terms. Getting this back to normality would be great for everyone involved, especially as mod can be treated on the actual original content, and that the rest of the community can actually look forward to this instead of thinking about the current/past situations it has been involved in and what it has been through.

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21 Jun 2015 16:21 #24 by Eguy
Replied by Eguy on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
I like what Jack said here. Some people had been telling me (don't want to point fingers) that if I stay with the MBSuper team I'm part of the "liars" and I'd betray the MB community. This is untrue. I don't stay with the team because I like that they stole code from MBP. I stayed because the people on this team are capable of creating an amazing mod, PQ or no PQ features. I want to be part of that. Matt is a great guy; he immediately removed all the PQ stuff and he's as chill as someone like Regi.

"it's the internet eguy. where children are men. men are monkeys, and women are PQ."
-Jeff 2014
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21 Jun 2015 16:30 - 21 Jun 2015 16:32 #25 by Jeff
Replied by Jeff on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
Forgot to post here after last night's meeting with MBSuper staff and Platinum Team :P

This issue has been marked as RESOLVED. Textures have been replaced, stolen code has been removed, and they're looking for a better future.

Now, regarding the whole "revealing". It was seriously debated upon to do this, but because numerous attempts had failed at showing results, we felt that we had hit last resort and had to make this post, to inform all members of the community what has happened. The intention was not for marble blast super to die, but to induce change to show that the care enough about the mod to get change so that it is somewhat unique and has some things to look forward too. :)

I can't speak for everyone on the Platinum Team as we are all individuals, but I am not holding no grudges specifically and I am hoping we can move past this rock in the road and look for a much better future to come. :)

Thanks for your cooperation, Marble Blast Super.

I am a programmer. Most here know me for being one of the major contributors to Marble Blast Platinum and PlatinumQuest.
Last edit: 21 Jun 2015 16:32 by Jeff.
The following user(s) said Thank You: [email protected], StewMan46
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21 Jun 2015 16:43 #26 by Nockess
Replied by Nockess on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
I'm glad we could get this settled with you guys. Thank you! :)

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21 Jun 2015 16:49 #27 by Eguy
Replied by Eguy on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
Yeah, I hope we get past this and learn from it and become a closer together community! Remember, flaw is part of success.

"it's the internet eguy. where children are men. men are monkeys, and women are PQ."
-Jeff 2014
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21 Jun 2015 17:08 #28 by [email protected]
Good to see this resolved after all. A happy resolution that everyone deserves.
I hope that the community can learn from this experience, as regardless of the experience, good or bad, if resolved in the end, can only help the community. :)

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21 Jun 2015 21:44 #29 by StewMan46
Replied by StewMan46 on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper
Good to see this is resolved. I MIGHT come back but I can't promise anything.
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21 Jun 2015 22:04 #30 by Nockess
Replied by Nockess on topic Our Stance on MBUltra and MBSuper

StewMan46 wrote:
Good to see this is resolved. I MIGHT come back but I can't promise anything.


Stew, you really have to decide one way or another. You've been flip-flopping for the longest time and we need a definite choice.

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