file Behaviour issues

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16 May 2016 05:58 #1

The Marble Blast Staff have been, for years, trying to create a friendly environment for all users to enjoy. As we grew from the older leaderboards to the newer ones, and later added an online Webchat, we realised that previous rules set on the forums needed to be brought to the new Webchat, as well as refined to account for today's community.

We have introduced several measurements so that all members can enjoy their time on Webchat; these include filters such as spam, politics, caps lock, and swearing (all of which are present in many other online gaming sites and communities). We know that the community's main userbase is mostly made up of adolescents, which is why it is important for us to provide a friendly environment to chat and play.

Unfortunately, a few members have decided to spam Webchat, much to the dismay of the moderating team. As a response, HiGuy had created an 'Adult Chat', where these users could spam without hitting the main chat. An additional chat, named 'coolchat', was created as a separate entity (it is inactive today) but was later dropped in favor of the Adult Chat.

As time progressed, the contents in the Adult Chat became worse and even included talking down other members. At the same time, new rules and filters were introduced to the main Webchat as some contents of Adult Chat had actually leaked. Eventually as more time passed, we realised that Adult Chat was no longer serving its original purpose, and instead it has divided part of the community by giving a few members a special treatment, while the rest had to follow Webchat rules. Even when Adult Chat was not in use, these members were given a treatment by the staff not taking serious action whenever they broke the rules.

Eventual discussions that followed had the whole staff agree that Adult Chat should be axed. We noticed its users had other ways of contacting each other (namely, Skype), and that the contents of the Adult Chat should not exist any further on Webchat. We saw it fitting to unify Webchat completely with a proper set of rules to maintain the original goal that we wanted: to have a friendly community environment.

What happened next was uncalled for. The members who had the special privileges complained about the loss of their Adult Chat quite heavily, and some of them started to make several of arguments for talking down the staff. A few of those arguments include:
- They told us we were lazy for not moderating at all, and when we did moderate, they got pissed at us for moderating.
- They spammed Webchat even when told to stop. This was done on a daily basis, several times a day.
- They said they knew better than everyone else what the community wanted.
- They called every single staff member a plethora of different degrading names, and kept noting how useless the staff are.
- They say the staff are a "hivemind", and that they should be on the staff in order to give actual opinions that differ.
- Threatening to leave the community, and saying that the community will die when they leave.
- Continuously stated that they would be better moderators, and named a few of the current moderators and administrators who should be removed from this site.

Whenever we responded or argued against any of the above points, they then repeated said points, and made no further useful arguments. These arguments repeated themselves for weeks, and with each and every decision we made (after having discussed them for hours in staff chat) they questioned us in a way that implied that we don't have the best interest in mind for the community.

After weeks of this harassment, the staff has had enough, calling for extreme action to be taken. That was handed this morning, where Kurt, nobody and hPerks were all banned from Webchat, and the forums.

Nobody has been the main spammer on Webchat for weeks (just the last five days have dozens of examples, including staff asking him to stop), and has been given a three day ban. He spent a lot of energy trying to come up with ways to get around the staff telling him to stop spamming, as well as the various filters that were set up. It got to the point where he counted characters before Webchat auto-muted him.

Kurt has been the driving force behind this whole ordeal. He has been banned twice in the past, even on InstantAction, on similar grounds. He has not learned from the past and when we gave him special treatment and privileges he abused them. When we took them away, he started complaining, making the previously said arguments and repeating those for the next weeks to come. The majority of staff agreed to ban him until further notice and discussion.

hPerks, although he was not directly involved in most of the above, was given a warning after continuing the tiring jokes of 'Kurt for Staff' and requesting the same privileges that were removed (as well as the joke for removing all filters from the chat). After continuing despite the warning, he was punished with a one day ban. This has expired as of now.

After this whole ordeal, the staff agreed that we could take a few lessons. For example we need to communicate better when a person is warned so that the next one who deals with the problem already knows the member was verbally warned. Likewise, we understand that what constitutes as 'spam' is different for everyone. We do try and remain around the same grounds, regardless. Additionally, we will give a verbal warning if we find you breaking the rules before starting to punish (in the form of a lengthy mute to start with).
It is most unfortunate that we do not have a Warning System as with the old ProBoards days, but we do hope in the future to implement a better system.

We hope that you will understand the difficulties that come with running a website and an online Webchat. Our staff have had experience with other communities as well and noted that we game more chances than most others would have. Plenty of other communities would have banned these members much easier.

If you have any further suggestions or would like to discuss the rules with us in a civil manner, we would be happy to talk.

We wish everyone happy Marble Blasting,
- The Marble Blast Community Staff


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16 May 2016 11:39 - 16 May 2016 11:39 #2
The staff has always been very friendly with the rest of the users, and in the past there have been incidents where moderation was disregarded (though most of those were solved once Kalle was made a mod and the new TOS was put in place). I think that, for nobody at least, this led to a feeling of comfort/friendship with staff and that it was fine for him to spam because the staff hadn't done anything in the past, so they wouldn't do anything in the future. I could be totally wrong on this but that is my interpretation of what is said here in this post, as I am confident nobody would not intentionally harm the community. He just took the joke a little too far.
Last edit: 16 May 2016 11:39 by Frostfire.
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16 May 2016 12:36 - 16 May 2016 13:36 #3
I suppose I've felt for a while that the staff is biased a lot of the time, this action shows they're not afraid to take action when things get out of hand, even when it involves their friends. This is reassuring. I agree with several of Matan's/the staffs' points, and I agree with several of Kurt's as well. I do not think he should be entirely ignored in this, and I'm not saying he is, honestly I don't know but I think the staff (if not already) should take his ideas into account. It sounds like what had to be done is done. I'm glad the people involved are old enough to understand and to work it out like mature adults. :)
Last edit: 16 May 2016 13:36 by Jkk39.

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17 May 2016 06:56 - 17 May 2016 07:00 #4
Edit: Here is Kurt's response:

"They say the staff are a "hivemind", and that they should be on the staff in order to give actual opinions that differ."

I'll own up to saying that alone, and TBH I stand by it, regardless of whether its me in staff or not, people seem to only be added because staff 'like them' - differing opinions are a good part of a healthy community :)

"Continuously stated that they would be better moderators, and named a few of the current moderators and administrators who should be removed from this site."

I will own up to being a part of that, perhaps getting frustrated when you feel people just dont care what you have to say, i couldve expressed emotions a bit better than that.




"Kurt has been the driving force behind this whole ordeal."

It came down to getting super frustrated when I felt all my efforts were under appreciated, such as working on thousands of CLA levels, making levels, plus other stuff and then the next day getting A chat taken off me, whilst people doing next to nothing get promoted to staff, I just had to vent in some way, in an attempt to make staff accountable for things which I found to be unfair, making me think of staff as more of a 'boys club' as opposed to a leadership team. I apologise however for any harm done to anyone, I never intended malice, just to try make people aware of how I felt, it was the wrong way to go about it and offer no excuses for how I acted.


You are most likely talking about me and in some ways about Uil since we don't sit in webchat for hours every day or don't contribute levels to community that often.
So let me just explain, personally I was added to PQ team to focus on 1 thing, shapes and in some instances levels. The fact that I have staff rank is result of many events that occurred in last half year or so where I actually needed it to do few things. The thing is I don't have just Marble blast to deal with in my life and I don't have 5 hrs every day to sit at webchat and look after everyone unlike many other people on forums. As regarding general progress of things, it's been slow but I plan to catch up in autumn and organize myself better and I am aware that I have problems with that.
Now why are you not in staff/PQ and why somebody as unnoticed as Uil or Me got in, This is how I see it.
First of all none of us were constantly wining and asking for this rank, we got approached by the staff, I never expected to be added to PQ. We slowly produced content and let opportunities come to us. your efforts also got noticed, I personally liked your levels and with each level you slowly started growing and staff saw potential in you. So saying that your contribution is unnoticed is kinda flawed.
Secondly your attitude, to be part of staff you must be at least remotely mature and know when to stop, in fact at the beginning of webchat you where a good match for moderator with good up time , sadly your actions slowly started getting out of hand and that option slipped away. How can you moderate a webchat if you can't moderate yourself and have understanding when to stop. How can you be part of staff if you don't have common sense of when something is too much. Remember that this is not a cow pasture that we are taking care of, we are leading a community that, as already mentioned, consists adolescents so we have to follow all standard guidelines that most public chat owners follow by. And argument ''Oh they will figure it out eventually anyway'' or ''But everyone knows it's a joke'' won't work this time.
These are my 2 cents.

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Last edit: 17 May 2016 07:00 by RDs.The-dts-guy.
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19 May 2016 03:47 #5
Sorry for the late response. I'd like to offer my advice on this topic.

First off, just a friendly suggestion: Don't point fingers. It doesn't help anyone. While I know that the three that you mentioned have been violating the boundaries of the behavior we'd like to see, going in to detail about "HPerks did this, nobody did that, Kurt did this..." is not very objective and doesn't help the general message of the topic (and, in spite of everything that happened, may not be fair to those three). I feel it would've been much more effective to make a general announcement to the public about behavior, then discuss the issues with the aforementioned people privately.

Second, I really feel it shouldn't come to unfortunate issues like this, but too often in the face of adversity we forget the things that bring us together as a community. The PQ jokes, the multiplayer, the skyping and discussion of friendly topics such as marble blasting, classical music, real life, baseball, whatever it may be, are all examples of reasons why we should be grateful for this community and all the bonds we've made in our time here. This should always remain a friendly place. And I have a suggestion that if things start getting out of hand, whoever is involved just quit talking, take a break and go for some world records. Or play a quick multiplayer match together. After all, this is marble blasting together community and not fighting with each other.

Lastly, I feel like this hullabaloo has been harming our reputation. I was so delighted to see such a welcoming, vibe when I first joined the community in May 2014, and I gradually realised that I don't think I would be welcomed that way in any other game community. I think every one of us can relate to that experience of being new to the community and coming to fit right in and feel at home. I'll take this opportunity to thank the staff for maintaining that vibe. It's hard to believe that people would feel otherwise about how awesome the MB staff is. And I trust that we can get through this... I'm not trying to say we haven't faced road bumps before in our time together, such as MBSuper, but I hope everyone will open their eyes and realise a few things, and come together to push through this.

This is just my two cents, I don't mean to offend anyone in this post, I'm trying to do this for the best.

~Eguy

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-Jeff 2014
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22 May 2016 05:58 #6
I have personally verified that typing the word "discord" in webchat causes a three-minute mute.

On the one hand, I have heard that this may be due to people spamming links to Discord in webchat, in which case I understand. I have also heard that there is a Discord server created in order to allow Kurt to communicate with other forum members. If the mute on the word "discord" is in order to prevent discussion of this server, or to prevent individuals from contacting Kurt, know that I consider this a blatant act of unmerited censorship, and I will not take it lightly. I am not threatening any sort of attack whatsoever, but I don't want to have to get caught up in politics.
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23 May 2016 12:53 #7
I agree with Whirligig. Muting just for saying "Discord" is unfair in other ways as well. What if you're talking about how much discord and upheaval there was on webchat back in early 2015? What if you simply say that you prefer Skype over Discord and get muted for three minutes? It doesn't seem right to me.

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24 May 2016 01:24 - 24 May 2016 01:27 #8
Since whirligig didn't mention it, here's what I discovered about the spam filter:

[5/22/16, 9:54:22 AM] HiGuy: "discord" is not actually in the mute filter
[5/22/16, 9:54:50 AM] HiGuy: nor is "joj" or any of their spam (although those probably should be)
[5/22/16, 9:55:34 AM] HiGuy: actually
[5/22/16, 9:55:41 AM] HiGuy: my local copy is out of date
[5/22/16, 9:56:05 AM] HiGuy: yeah apparently it is in there
[5/22/16, 9:56:11 AM] HiGuy: wtf
[5/22/16, 9:56:28 AM] HiGuy: and [the discord channel id] is there too
[5/22/16, 9:56:57 AM] HiGuy: so one of two things happened:
[5/22/16, 9:57:27 AM] HiGuy: 1. someone else updated the file (probably)
[5/22/16, 9:57:27 AM] HiGuy: 2. i updated it a completely different way and don't remember (unlikely)


I have since removed "discord" from the mute list. You are allowed to discuss the service itself, but please refrain from posting the actual link to the channel that nobody created. The discussions are too explicit for us to allow that.

As for hPerks, the mute filter will block substrings. Yes, I know this is entirely vulnerable to the Scunthorpe Problem , but I consider the small number of false-positives not significant enough to change this.

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Code:
function clientcmd12dothepq() { commandToClient(LocalClientConnection, '34onthedancefloor'); }
Last edit: 24 May 2016 01:27 by HiGuy. Reason: Addressed hPerks
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24 May 2016 01:33 #9
Hi all,

While I know certain aspects of the mute filter can have drawbacks and cause some issues when applied to certain discussions as mentioned in some of the posts above, however, keep in mind it's implemented mainly as a general content filter for language or context which we decided would be inappropriate for most Webchat discussions.

No, it's not perfect by any means, and I apologize in advance for some of the troubles the mute filter will inevitably cause. We're not "out to get" any of our community members with an "Aha! Gotcha" mentality - in fact, it's quite the opposite. I've had discussions with several parents whom expressed their son or daughter's interest in the Marble Blast Community, yet were reluctant to allow their children to use the website simply because of some of the content they read on the forums and Webchat. It is disappointing to me that I've had to turn some of these wonderful folks away from the more exciting online portions of the game simply because of the unfiltered content that occasionally leaked into the chat system.

With the new filters in place, I feel more comfortable expressing to these individuals that there are at least some form of automated filtering and a higher level of enforcement and attention granted to some of our younger members, and with it a (hopefully) welcome environment for new and old players alike to connect and partake in what we all enjoy most - Marble Blast.

I apologize again with how events have turned out, and I agree that perhaps the announcement could've been lightened, but I feel the direction and stance which was taken absolutely demonstrates our commitment to our sole purpose - The Community - and the necessary, unfortunate actions that had to be taken to ensure that all of you can truly enjoy Marble Blast and our phenomenal community.

I will personally address any concerns about the decision herein, as I am sure some of my colleagues would as well, if anyone has questions or concerns about the new filtration system or behavioral context.

We truly appreciate and admire each and every one of our community members. We hope you always have a pleasant and enjoyable experience while connected to the world of Marble Blast as we continue this (almost) fifteen year old arcade classic into the future.

Thank you,
~Aayrl
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24 May 2016 03:52 #10

whirligig wrote: If the mute on the word "discord" is in order to prevent discussion of this server, or to prevent individuals from contacting Kurt, know that I consider this a blatant act of unmerited censorship, and I will not take it lightly. I am not threatening any sort of attack whatsoever, but I don't want to have to get caught up in politics.


We aren't allowing people to paste the URL to the chat because the contents of it violate our rules. People are literally posting pornographic images in that discord chat. If we allow people to post links to that discord chat, then we would be contradicting ourselves unless we also allow people to post links to porn.

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24 May 2016 03:57 #11

Derpking wrote:

whirligig wrote: If the mute on the word "discord" is in order to prevent discussion of this server, or to prevent individuals from contacting Kurt, know that I consider this a blatant act of unmerited censorship, and I will not take it lightly. I am not threatening any sort of attack whatsoever, but I don't want to have to get caught up in politics.


We aren't allowing people to paste the URL to the chat because the contents of it violate our rules. People are literally posting pornographic images in that discord chat. If we allow people to post links to that discord chat, then we would be contradicting ourselves unless we also allow people to post links to porn.


Ah, understood. Is it not possible to mute the URL as opposed to the word "discord"?

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24 May 2016 04:14 #12

whirligig wrote:

Derpking wrote:

whirligig wrote: If the mute on the word "discord" is in order to prevent discussion of this server, or to prevent individuals from contacting Kurt, know that I consider this a blatant act of unmerited censorship, and I will not take it lightly. I am not threatening any sort of attack whatsoever, but I don't want to have to get caught up in politics.


We aren't allowing people to paste the URL to the chat because the contents of it violate our rules. People are literally posting pornographic images in that discord chat. If we allow people to post links to that discord chat, then we would be contradicting ourselves unless we also allow people to post links to porn.


Ah, understood. Is it not possible to mute the URL as opposed to the word "discord"?


It is. We didn't even intend to mute it at all in the first place, though. Whoever did it acted on their own. We would much rather deal with this on a case-by-case basis.

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24 May 2016 04:17 - 24 May 2016 04:17 #13

Derpking wrote:

whirligig wrote: If the mute on the word "discord" is in order to prevent discussion of this server, or to prevent individuals from contacting Kurt, know that I consider this a blatant act of unmerited censorship, and I will not take it lightly. I am not threatening any sort of attack whatsoever, but I don't want to have to get caught up in politics.


We aren't allowing people to paste the URL to the chat because the contents of it violate our rules. People are literally posting pornographic images in that discord chat. If we allow people to post links to that discord chat, then we would be contradicting ourselves unless we also allow people to post links to porn.


I understand that. Honestly I feel like leaving the group because of that alone, however completely removing the use of that word doesn't seem right. What if someone tried to have a serious discussion about Discord but was muted for it? Is it that hard to mute someone on your own while in webchat?

"Ah, understood. Is it not possible to mute the URL as opposed to the word 'discord'"?


It's pretty hard to on Discord, you can just as easily use a different link to invite someone; also, links expire after 24 hours so it's not that easy to just mute one link alone.

If some people won't mind, I'll state my full opinion on this issue.

I'm pretty ashamed of this altogether. On one side, you've got the staff which banned 3 users who are usuallly targeted, but it doesn't seem to teach them much of a lesson, or at least from what I see happen sometimes. I'm not going to deny what is happening inside of that Discord chat, but let's just say it's some pretty bad stuff. I'm probably going to stop using it soon just simply due to the inappropriate content/porn that is sent on there.

While this happens, I don't want to continue this drama much longer. It's happened enough, I'm sure both staff and members are tired of it. The community here was meant to stay together, not split apart like it is now. Once Kurt gets his mute taken away, I hope we can all just relax and enjoy the times we had before all this happened. I'm going to try my best to stop the madness that occurs inside of that Discord server.

Even so, I apologize for most of this confusion that has happened over the past week. I want this to stop just as badly as (hopefully) a lot of you do. I want to restore this back to the place it was before.

I know most of you staff will get irritated over me saying something like this, but I doubt that hPerks, Nobody or Kurt meant much by making those remarks or the "hPerks/Kurt for staff" thread. When you say "they continuously stated that they could be better moderators" I didn't ever think it would be taken like this at all. Kurt already stated pretty well in his remarks that he will try to change how he will treat you guys in the future.

Honestly, Marble Blast is one of, if not the best and most well-functioned communities I have seen in a while. I just want this to eventually come to a compromise so this place can have the same friendly nature as before. Sorry if some of this was repeated in earlier posts. To leave off, thank you staff. We would never be the same marble blast community without you. While we had some setbacks over the past few days, that isn't enough to bring this place back together.

"cna you salt spalt the slevel salt of 6 year salt who ca salt the lsat" - nobody, 2017
Last edit: 24 May 2016 04:17 by Xedron.
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24 May 2016 04:22 #14
We took "Discord" off the auto-mute list, as HiGuy said. Just don't post the link to nobody's server in the webchat and you'll be fine.

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26 May 2016 14:48 #15
Aaryl wrote:

I've had discussions with several parents whom expressed their son or daughter's interest in the Marble Blast Community.


Then why don't you have an option to turn off the chat?

The object of destroying walls is pretty much to just get ch*rploads of bricks and buy loads of everything, while learning for destroying walls in the process. Its time to rise to greatness!

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27 May 2016 22:22 #16

TheSphere wrote: Aaryl wrote:

I've had discussions with several parents whom expressed their son or daughter's interest in the Marble Blast Community.


Then why don't you have an option to turn off the chat?

While I agree that children shouldn't be on chat (it is, of course, a safe environment), I don't see a real reason to create an option to disable the web chat on the site. If you mean in-game, it's not a half-bad idea... I'm still a bit skeptical, as much of the leaderboards' special features have chat integration as well.

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28 May 2016 01:14 #17
Yes, I mean in-game.

The object of destroying walls is pretty much to just get ch*rploads of bricks and buy loads of everything, while learning for destroying walls in the process. Its time to rise to greatness!

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28 May 2016 01:33 #18
Press y twice to remove chat in-game.
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28 May 2016 01:51 #19
Once to remove just the chat, once more to remove all UI (generally for taking screenshots), and once again for returning all UI including chat.
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30 May 2016 16:55 #20
Um,where do i start.
The Age Rating is not ok.
you should change that rule to
"Be Allowed to play if you have 11 years or greater"

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30 May 2016 17:09 - 30 May 2016 18:26 #21

Alexnico wrote: Um,where do i start.
The Age Rating is not ok.
you should change that rule to
"Be Allowed to play if you have 11 years or greater"

-With Love:Alexnico


The main reason for that rule is just to keep a good environment, and if the place is filled with immature 11-12 year olds (not saying there isn't any immature players right now..) the webchat would just turn to pure cancer. Besides that, I doubt staff is going to make that much changes after this draft of the Terms of Service.

It's just the law. It you don't feel comfortable being in a 13+ server just play offline until you're mature enough.

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Last edit: 30 May 2016 18:26 by Xedron.
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31 May 2016 12:10 #22
the reason im saying this is that i was banned for being 11 and months,and im not inmature
If regi unban's me i will tell everyone that im an "angel"

"angel" = A Person that is good

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31 May 2016 14:02 #23
It's not just you, everyone was banned if they were <13.
If I remember correctly, it is technically illegal for the staff to "gather information from people less than 13 years of age," which is why you were banned.
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31 May 2016 14:13 #24
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31 May 2016 16:29 #25

Alexnico wrote: the reason im saying this is that i was banned for being 11 and months,and im not inmature
If regi unban's me i will tell everyone that im an "angel"

"angel" = A Person that is good


"A Person that is good" = an honest person who doesn't lie (about their age on webchat)
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31 May 2016 16:39 #26
I Am Banned,Goodbye Cruel Marble blast Community

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31 May 2016 16:53 - 31 May 2016 16:55 #27
Here's my point of view.

Alexnico wrote: Goodbye Cruel Marble blast Community

That statement is not true nor is it fair.

Even if someone claims to be very mature, that doesn't make you an exception. My belief (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that the community set this age limit because looking at how much stuff is said in chat, someone who's young will eventually pick up the foul language and will get used to saying it a lot. This turns THEM into someone who's immature and who should not be able to know some of the foul language out there.
This is why the age limit is there. We don't want to spoil younger kids mind of the examples we set in the community. We ban people under the age limit for their own protection.

Unrelated:
Warning: Spoiler!

Call me Chris!

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31 May 2016 20:15 #28
Additionally (correct me if I am wrong), being banned just means being shadow banned. As you can see, you can still post on the forums and you can still play MBP online, and your scores will still be saved. You still get to use some of the privileges of this website and the corresponding game.

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01 Jun 2016 13:44 #29
oh,i did not not think it in that way.
So,im commin back!

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