Morality of Cheap Tricks in Multiplayer

I just wanted to make a little forum post about something I noticed in multiplayer games and chatted about with our resident Frostfire, and I want to get the community's overall opinion here. Remember, I'm not trying to start a fight or any kind of drama, so I'd like to keep this thread a mature discussion.

The first issue i'll address is Respawn Abuse. For those of you who don't know what Respawn Abuse is, it's when a person is in the middle of a multiplayer match and in order to get closer to the next spawn, he/she presses the 'Respawn' button in the multiplayer menu or the backspace (or whatever key the command is mapped to). The button's main purpose is (I suppose) to correct potential spawn glitches that a player has, and it can only be used every 20 seconds. Though the button normally spawns the player as far away from a spawn as possible, it still has the ability to spawn players closer, or even right next to gem spawns, giving him/her direct access to the points doing little to no work. This is similar to normal spawn abuse, though the player (especially on enclosed maps) does not need to find an OOB trigger to get a new spawn.

The other issue i'd like to address is Camping. Now, obviously this is something that is simply out of the control of the game to dictate, so I'm talking about this from much more of an ethical standpoint. Camping is used (most often) by the leading player to get a potential 'jump start' on the next spawn, leaving a small set of gems behind for a trailing player to collect. This makes it little to impossible for trailing players to surpass the leader, especially on large maps such as Bowl or Sprawl. I am indeed guilty of this trick in the past, which is more why i'd like to hear your opinion on this kind of stunt.

What do you guys think? Are there any other cheap tricks that you approve of/disapprove of? Again, the last thing I want to happen here is to conduct a huge flame war, so think of this really as more of a brainstorming thread. All I really want is to make multiplayer as fair as of a mode of play it can be .

-RC

I think re spawn is fine.

I think camping is a cheap tactic, but there's really nothing that can be done about it, and it's perfectly fine morally.

I don't see any problems with either of these. Since respawn can only be used once every 20 seconds, its abuse potential has been limited. And camping is perfectly acceptable and unpreventable. Also, it is, for the most part, luck-based, and could very often backfire, if the next gem spawn is very close to the previous one. And it doesn't give players unfair advantages, since anyone is allowed to camp gem spawns or respawn whenever.

Well, honestly I've had an issue with camping ever since I started playing mp, and probably always will have. (especially when someone goes out of his way to avoid the last red, while having picked up the entire rest of the spawn, or waiting right next to the last gem till your enemy comes close).
In 1v1 matches, you probably won't see me leaving the last red gem alot. (Tournament might make a difference in that though, but we'll see)
In matches with more people I do tend to do that, it's kinda inevitable not to do that.
Whether it's morally correct, hm. To me, it feels like it isn't, but I get why some people feel differently.

The respawn button is coded in a way to make you spawn on the other side of the level, though it's abit random. If you are on the opposite side of the level, and you use it (which is when I do use that) it can't spawn you any further than you already are.

Whether that's morally correct, if I honestly look at it, no. It's more of a habit, especially when I'm behind, to use it.

I think both tactics you mentioned are fine, but the only one I think is bad is leaving the last red.

Camping is of course fine as it is only a strategy. I don't use it myself very much, but in a tournament, I probably will.

Personally I would want to ban the respawn button, it is luck based as it can spawn you right next to the gems, or on the other other side of the map.

I have no problem with either, although the respawn thing normally spawns you as far as possible from the gems (at least in matches for me vs higuy), there is always this luck you might get, but it is only one spawn and having the 20 second cooldown helps a lot more.

Camping well, deal with it I will use it if I feel like it but I definitely expect others to use it on me... although it doesn't always work. .

Camping in my opinion seems like a legitimate tactic, and I don't see anything horribly wrong with it. I have a thing against abuse of certain game (mis)functionality, however, as it is highly unfair to others who don't entirely know how the game (or multiplayer) works. If everyone uses it, then they (or I) would be the only one left out. It takes a long time to cross a map, which can easily be close to 20 seconds (depending on the map). For levels like KotM, I don't see it as much as an issue. Though, an option to toggle the functionality might help. I like toggle-ability.

I don't find myself opposing the use of the respawn button. It is true that you can press it in order to be respawned to a 'better' position in the map, but almost every time you are spawned to somewhere far away from the gems, and I don't see a big problem with that. Together with the 20 seconds cooldown time, its degree of abuse is pretty limited.

Camping, however, is a totally legit practice in my opinion. It is literally part of the tactic that one can deploy during a match so as to increase the chance of getting to the next spawn faster. It is not as unfair as it looks because, as mentioned already, it can backfire if there is a double spawn or a spawn closer to your opponent. (If you happen to move away far enough) Also the respawn button here could help the opponent to be respawned to a more convenient place on the map (especially when the last gem is on the brim of the level.) So camping is more like a bet or tactic instead of a solid advantage.

If the respawn button had such a limited usage as people seem to claim, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Using the respawn button is nothing short of abusing a faulty code that often puts you, not only closer to, but sometimes even right next to the gems. 20 seconds of cooldown is far, far, too short. a five minute cooldown would be much better as it allows you to get out of the glitchy state that sometimes occur in the beginning of a match, but it is not possible to abuse as the cooldown is as long as the match.

Edit: I just played three matches against Alexis and the only time I remembered to use the respawn button it took me from one side of the level to the side where the gems had just spawned. I.e. doing the exact opposite of what it's intended to do.

Yep, I agree with that message. A 5-minute respawn throttle time would mean you can only use it once in a match (or two-three times in Aayrl's huge level), as that happens to exceed the length of the match.

You could have a 1-minute cooldown. Thus it would typically be used 3-4 times in a match rather than abused. The inability to use it more than once would be crucial on a small selection of maps such as Par Pit (tornado).

Kalle29 wrote: If the respawn button had such a limited usage as people seem to claim, then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Using the respawn button is nothing short of abusing a faulty code that often puts you, not only closer to, but sometimes even right next to the gems. 20 seconds of cooldown is far, far, too short. a five minute cooldown would be much better as it allows you to get out of the glitchy state that sometimes occur in the beginning of a match, but it is not possible to abuse as the cooldown is as long as the match.

Edit: I just played three matches against Alexis and the only time I remembered to use the respawn button it took me from one side of the level to the side where the gems had just spawned. I.e. doing the exact opposite of what it's intended to do.

I would also agree with this. I could understand why a single long shot could be attractive, but to have it every 20 seconds is simply too excessive in my eyes.

Camping (and its abuse) is so bad that sometimes I stop caring about winning, and just sit next to the last gem. In my opinion, constantly chasing that last gem is annoying to such an extent that 5 minutes of sitting next to a gem is preferable to trying, even if I lose 12-3. True, one can argue that a "sufficiently skilled player" (i.e. Matan) could make a comeback from this tactic, but the horrendous overuse of this essentially decides a game's fate in the first 15 seconds.

Quick Respawn was never meant to be abused to such an extent (indeed, I might need to up the distance so you can't get close spawns). While it can have applications for quicktravel tactics, it was mostly only supposed to be used as a backup in case you were unable to move or stuck in a tornado. I might increase its respawn time if there is enough interest.

Idea to prevent camping:

If three gems are left at a spawn, after 20 seconds they despawn and the next spawn happens.
If two gems are left at a spawn, after 10 seconds they despawn and the next spawn happens.
If one gem is left at a spawn, after 8 seconds it despawns and the next spawn happens.

Go go higuy!

jk but this idea actually appeals to me. It would prevent major camping. No need for 4+ gems, because that's usually at least half the spawn.

Actually seriously considering implementing that.

Edit: Just found that the quick spawn was spawning too close to the gems because of a bug. That should be fixed in the next patch

HiGuy wrote: Actually seriously considering implementing that.

Edit: Just found that the quick spawn was spawning too close to the gems because of a bug. That should be fixed in the next patch

Next patch before tourney? c:

Frostfire wrote: Next patch before tourney? c:

Sure, it'll come out about 30 minutes before the first game, and screw over everyone with an unknown bug and break everything.

HiGuy wrote:

Frostfire wrote: Next patch before tourney? c:

Sure, it'll come out about 30 minutes before the first game, and screw over everyone with an unknown bug and break everything.

First game? You mean the first round's drawing? The first game could happen any time after 9 AM your time.

Frostfire wrote:

HiGuy wrote:

Frostfire wrote: Next patch before tourney? c:

Sure, it'll come out about 30 minutes before the first game, and screw over everyone with an unknown bug and break everything.

First game? You mean the first round's drawing? The first game could happen any time after 9 AM your time.

well it's too late now

I propose a 1 minute cooldown for quick respawn, and it makes you spawn farther away.

Now, regarding camping. It is something that I do sometimes, but when I do, I end up feeling guilty about it. I agree with what HiGuy and Regi said. I know, I know, it's a strat, but it is waaay to abused. Something like a matan mode needs to be implemented on the last gem sitting there. That would really help curb camping, while still making it possible to camp for a few seconds. I absolutely hate playing catchup, and it could be a deterrent if new players who come on for the first time get placed into a camping free-for-all where everyone just camps and the poor new guy is the one playing catchup.

Edit:
@RC about topic nature, it's fine, everyone seems to be respectful. Rest assured if it goes out of hand I'll lock the topic.