file macOS Catalina and Marble Blast

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10 Oct 2019 02:50 #1 by HiGuy
macOS Catalina and Marble Blast was created by HiGuy
macOS Catalina was released this Monday and has removed support...

macOS Catalina was released this Monday and has removed support for 32-bit applications. Marble Blast, and by extension, PlatinumQuest, will not run on macOS Catalina. If you want to continue playing Marble Blast on macOS, do not update past macOS Mojave.

Future builds of PlatinumQuest will continue to support the same versions of macOS (10.7 - 10.14) but if you update your computer there are a few alternative ways to play:

  • Install a Windows Virtual Machine and play the Windows version of PlatinumQuest.
  • Install a Linux Virtual Machine and play the Windows version via WinE or Proton.
  • Hopefully in time, CodeWeavers will update WinE on macOS to support running 32-bit programs.

Thanks for playing with us for all these years. We'll let you know if we add support for running PlatinumQuest on macOS Catalina.

- HiGuy


PQ in a nutshell
function clientcmd12dothepq() {
    commandToClient(LocalClientConnection, '34onthedancefloor');
}

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10 Oct 2019 05:32 #2 by Isoplere
Replied by Isoplere on topic macOS Catalina and Marble Blast
About CodeWeavers - their applications are great, and I have been using CrossOver for five years. As far as I know, there were no plans to expand to 32-bit software, but now that Catalina is removing 32 bit support for most applications, I am sure they are trying to come up with solutions to make a 64-bit Crossover as we write this..

Let us not give up hope, and let us pester Codeweavers for inquiries if we have to.

- Isoplere

Isoplere - Marble Blast Modder; getting better day by day, update by update.

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  • Nathan125
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11 Oct 2019 01:28 #3 by Nathan125
Replied by Nathan125 on topic macOS Catalina and Marble Blast
I'm still on High Sierra, so I'm good. X3

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13 Oct 2019 05:19 #4 by Josep_Nollette
Replied by Josep_Nollette on topic macOS Catalina and Marble Blast
In all honesty it is much easier to run an older version of Windows on a virtual machine than it is to run an older version of Mac OS X on the same. To run older PowerPC apps on an Intel "Mac" sold after Lion came out, one had to purchase Snow Leopard Server (the 'Client' version is not legally supported) and run it via a virtual machine. This was one thing that made me, hitherto a Mac fan, lose interest in the Mac platform and buy a Windows-based PC in March 2016.

IMHO the Mac died in 2006 when they ditched the PowerPC CPU in favor of Intel's x86 architecture. From 1984 up until 2006, one thing that made the Macintosh stand out from the IBM PC and compatible systems was its use of a CPU not named Intel 80x86. As a result, Macs at the time couldn't run Windows, and IBM-compatibles couldn't run contemporary versions of Mac OS. For this reason, I hesitate to call these Intel PCs with an Apple logo on them 'Macs' anymore. On the other hand, 'Apple PC' doesn't have the same ring to it.
To this day Apple is the last 'old-school' computer company to tie its own in-house-developed OS with its own hardware instead of bundling another company's OS and separate drivers like with Dell, HP and Lenovo. Had Apple not been so short-sighted as to restrict the Intel-versions of Mac OS X to its own computers in 2006, maybe then they'd have an install base comparable to that of Windows, and they wouldn't have to ditch 32-bit software compatibility.

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27 Mar 2020 19:13 - 28 Mar 2020 14:57 #5 by goforthefiles
Replied by goforthefiles on topic macOS Catalina and Marble Blast
I think you will be able to run the Windows versions on Mac using Windows Is Not An Emulator (AKA wine) wine lets you open Windows apps on unix software (Linux, Mac OS X)
Last edit: 28 Mar 2020 14:57 by goforthefiles. Reason: More information added

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28 Mar 2020 00:02 #6 by HiGuy
Replied by HiGuy on topic macOS Catalina and Marble Blast
Yes, as of a few months ago CrossOver added support for 32-bit windows applications, including Marble Blast. If you want to spend $40-$60 on it (or attempt to get the free version working), then you should be able to play Marble Blast. Note this is not a supported configuration at this time so support will be limited.

PQ in a nutshell
function clientcmd12dothepq() {
    commandToClient(LocalClientConnection, '34onthedancefloor');
}

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28 Mar 2020 02:41 #7 by superstar64
Replied by superstar64 on topic macOS Catalina and Marble Blast
If you want to run Marble Blast on Catalina, I'd just recommend you throw together a Mojave virtual machine or a Windows virtual machine using your virtualization software of choice. I didn't actually do that because my Windows 10 machine runs just fine, but it's probably your best bet.

stop taking my gems

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03 Apr 2020 18:10 #8 by goforthefiles
Replied by goforthefiles on topic macOS Catalina and Marble Blast
They would have had to switched, they were pretty much the only people bringing PPC to consumer markets, and with the really low use of PowerPC it became more for office computers and servers. Also, Macs have always been PCs, because a mac is a computer, and PC stands for Personal computer.
also they ditched powerpc because they wanted it to run windows. which is a bit funny because macs will not run on windows hardware.
Given that, you probably should run it off of Boot Camp, becuase it is faster than virtual machines. If you dont want to partition your disk, you can install it on an external hard disk.

final thing, what does IMHO stand for? imo stands for In my opinion, but what does the H mean?:side:

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03 Apr 2020 20:28 - 03 Apr 2020 20:33 #9 by Josep_Nollette
Replied by Josep_Nollette on topic macOS Catalina and Marble Blast

Macs have always been PCs, because a mac is a computer, and PC stands for Personal computer.


Yeah, I kinda understood that Macs have always been personal computers even during their M68k and PPC days. However, when you bring up 'PC', not everyone will define it as a consumer-level computer regardless of its CPU architecture or OS; some will instead define it as one designed to run Windows. One example is the way covers for computer games distributed on CD- or DVD-ROM, and sometimes the discs themselves, mention 'PC' for Windows games and 'PC/MAC' for dual Windows-Mac OS games, and the physical eGames version of Marble Blast is no exception to the former.
In other words, not everyone realizes that 'PC' isn't restricted to x86/64 computers that run come shipped with Windows.

final thing, what does IMHO stand for? imo stands for In my opinion, but what does the H mean?

H for 'honest'.
Last edit: 03 Apr 2020 20:33 by Josep_Nollette.

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06 Apr 2020 13:27 #10 by Red_zone
Replied by Red_zone on topic macOS Catalina and Marble Blast
Note: If you want high performance and top notch frame-rate, i suggest you should use VMWare. I tried running MB on VBox, and the performance was sub-par.

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10 Aug 2020 12:02 #11 by ninja2000
Replied by ninja2000 on topic macOS Catalina and Marble Blast
Please guys update Marble Blast so we can play on Mac OS Catalina.
Share your patreon, if you need us to donate.

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  • HiGuy
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10 Aug 2020 20:57 #12 by HiGuy
Replied by HiGuy on topic macOS Catalina and Marble Blast
Unfortunately due to many reasons, we don't have the ability to update the game for macOS Catalina. Your options for running on macOS are (in order of recommendation):

CrossOver: www.codeweavers.com/products
Wineskin: github.com/Gcenx/WineskinServer
Running a Windows virtual machine in Virtualbox/VMware: www.virtualbox.org/ www.vmware.com/products/fusion.html

Note that all three of these options come with significant performance penalties and we are not planning to officially support them. If you want to play on macOS natively, use an older Mac that has not been updated past macOS Mojave.

PQ in a nutshell
function clientcmd12dothepq() {
    commandToClient(LocalClientConnection, '34onthedancefloor');
}

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  • whirligig
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13 Aug 2020 20:12 - 13 Aug 2020 20:19 #13 by whirligig
Replied by whirligig on topic macOS Catalina and Marble Blast
It occurs to me that I don't know if the PQ devs have ever taken the time to put down in words exactly why getting PQ to run on Catalina would be such a big issue. So for posterity, I'm going to explain it as well as I understand it.

macOS Catalina removes support for applications to run in 32-bit mode. 32-bit mode is, effectively, a backwards compatibility layer that allows your processor to run as if it's an older version of the processor architecture. Most modern software has both 32-bit and 64-bit versions; often, both versions are bundled in the same package, essentially allowing the operating system to pick based on how old your computer is. From Catalina on, only the 64-bit version is supported by the operating system; it will refuse to run 32-bit software, and even if you managed to get it to, you would be missing the code that hooks it up to the operating system and lets it do things like open a window, read files, etc., which is obviously required for it to run. A 64-bit program is completely different from a 32-bit program, in the sense that the software speaks to the processor using a different form of language. So you can't really mod a game to add 64-bit support like you could mod it to add multiplayer--you would need to take all of the existing binary code and modify all of it.

So, that being said, if you want to play PQ on 64-bit macOS, you'll have to do one of the following:
  • Simulate a 32-bit-compatible machine from within your 64-bit machine. This is what Virtualbox and VMware do: they effectively make a "fake computer" that exists inside your real computer. It's a bit more complicated than that in practice, but you can see why this would result in a performance drop: your computer, in addition to running itself, has to dedicate resources to also running a second computer within itself.
  • Translate the 32-bit code to 64-bit code on the fly. This is what CrossOver and Wineskin do. It still has a performance drop, but it's not as big. The problem with this approach is that operating systems and processors are complicated, so these approaches will always have occasional edge cases where parts of the 32-bit system are supposed to interact in ways that the translation software doesn't understand. It's a matter of luck whether any of these edge cases end up crashing your game or similar. EDIT: HiGuy informed me that this is technically inaccurate, and that translating 32-bit to 64-bit code on the fly is technically infeasible because it would be way too slow. Remember how I said "even if you managed to get it to [run code in 32-bit mode], you would be missing the code that hooks it up to the operating system and lets it do things like open a window, read files, etc., which is obviously required for it to run"? That's exactly what CrossOver and Wineskin do: they run the code in 32-bit mode and translate the missing 32-bit operating system calls to the corresponding 64-bit versions.
  • Translate the 32-bit code to 64-bit code once, producing a native 64-bit version. This is theoretically possible, but as far as I know, such a technology doesn't exist yet. (And if it did, it would have the same issue with edge cases as the previous approach, and probably most of the performance issues as well.) If you want this technology to exist, then you should figure out how to sell it to investors so you can start a business. As someone with only a few months of experience working in the software industry, I'm pretty sure it'll be a flop.
  • Get the source code to MBG and rebuild it as a 64-bit program. This has potential, but it would still be a significant development cost because everything would have to be examined and tweaked to make sure it works in 64-bit macOS. There's a much bigger problem here: we don't have the source code to MBG, as far as I know. If the code still exists somewhere (i.e. hasn't been deleted from the hard drives it was on), then we would likely have to get the rights to the game in order to get the source code, and IAC or whoever owns the rights right now will likely want a lot of money, to the point where everyone registered on these forums would have to contribute several hundred dollars for us to have a chance. I doubt you'll find one person in this community willing to pay several hundred dollars in order to get MB to run on 64-bit macOS.
  • Reconstruct the game from scratch as a native macOS app. In other words, the last idea would be to take our knowledge of how the game works and use that knowledge to reprogram everything from scratch in a more modern engine. If you're going to put the effort into doing that, at that point you might as well just make a new, more modern marble game. And of course, the MB devs ended up doing just that, by making MIU.

So in conclusion: there is a massive hurdle in the way of getting MBG to run natively on Catalina and later, and it's a hurdle that can't be removed by throwing money at it unless it's the kind of money that most fundraising campaigns could barely dream of having.

One last thing I will say: this might not be financially viable for many people, but for those for whom it is, I would recommend just getting a copy of Windows to run on your Mac, or even buying a Windows PC. As someone who recently released a game on Steam that I'm totally going to take a few words of hyperlink to advertise, I've been told that Apple is getting less and less hospitable to game developers in the name of preserving a very strict amount of security and control, and I'll be surprised if there isn't an uptick in the number of Windows-only (or Windows-and-Linux-only) games in the next few years. So if you play a lot of video games, it's probably a good investment.
Last edit: 13 Aug 2020 20:19 by whirligig.
The following user(s) said Thank You: HiGuy, Nature Freak, Yoshicraft224, CylinderKnot

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16 Aug 2020 17:52 #14 by Nature Freak
Replied by Nature Freak on topic macOS Catalina and Marble Blast
I'd also like to add that if you have an Intel-based Mac (which you do), you can download an ISO image for Windows 10 for free, and then use the built-in Boot Camp utility on your Mac, along with the ISO image, to install Windows on a separate partition on your hard drive. That's what I did on my 2014 Mac mini, and it certainly works well enough for MBG and PQ to operate smoothly.

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08 Nov 2020 00:20 #15 by SMG4fan1234
Replied by SMG4fan1234 on topic macOS Catalina and Marble Blast
Maybe (in a few years (3 or more) I will try (right now I don't have that much time))

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