Advice for aspiring mod creators
You're free to proceed with this, but after seeing literally dozens of noob mods fail, I can tell you that mods are way more work than they seem. Thousands of hours go into making something as awesome as MBP, you can't do all that yourself or with a team of a few novices. You'd be better served developing your level building skills and releasing custom levels.
Nobody says:
If you're planning on a mod, which isn't probably a good idea atm, then please plan out every level/gui interface BEFORE you make it. First, a purely graphic mod is boring, easy to do, and will be forgotten in ~2 weeks after release. If you actually make something as good as MBP (which required like 10 people to lift off, and at least two years), you need more people power, and more time. The reason for planning is because you might run out of ideas very soon. If level 6 is already an über-advanced invisible tightrope challenge that takes 30 minutes, and with weird tornados everywhere, you don't exactly have the right to make the NEXT level one beatable by Granny.
I would instead create a level pack, instead of machining through 100 levels, do like 1-5, that will be remembered for a while. Like the Camp series. If you must do a mod, do so methodically and remember - it's not a race. If you have a 10% progress increase in the next week I know it will fail. Take it slow. Srsly.
And also, I made a similar mod when I was a young child (no really, I did). I figured out how to use package contents and Photoshop and how the textures worked and made a similar mod, minus the GUI difference. BTW I did this because I didn't like all the orange so I removed it and replaced it with black. Which goes to show that it isn't something that needs flaunting. I obviously had no clue how to use the LE at that time. My first experience with the LE was moving around the start pad of JJJ just b/c I wanted to see what it could do.
All said, either make a level pack (fine, call it MBH), or continue on the mod, I don't care, but please, whatever you do, don't just modify graphics.
If you don't like the advice, please don't flame me. I'm not trying to be offensive here.
Matan says:
MBP was made on 13 or so months, then patched from initial release. The major release (1.10) took 3 months to do. I'm pretty sure that to do major changes and what not will take months. I practically agree with 'nobody' here, since most mods usually try and have loads of levels but don't feature new stuff besides graphics (textures/gui) and maybe sounds/music. It would be better as a level pack, and if you're going to mod it, at least have some new coding stuff.
The things I always say to leaders of mods is that they should:
1) Plan the theme of the mod, what additions will it have, what changes it will have, etc. If they don't have a plan, don't even start a mod.
2) Commit to it at all times, not abandon or get bored from the mod. This is most likely to happen to anyone, so you need to realize that unless you're going to commit, odds are against you (and in fact, don't bother making a mod). Actually odds are against you anyway, so you need to strive to show otherwise. Not easy at all.
3) Realize it's going to take (at the very least) 6 months to produce a low to average quality mod and if you plan on higher qualities then they need to expect 1 year. The more you want in a mod (levels, features, etc), the longer it should take. MBFubar probably is going to take 4 years, but then again, they have so many things they want to include (and give an excellent quality mod) so you should expect something really good. MB9 should take a few months as well; just because they have shiny new powerups doesn't mean they can be called 'good' so fast. They still need to take their time; nobody is rushing them. I also think they say too many things too fast (such as the powerups) rather than slow down and actually work out everything else first. With the MBP LBs, until we were in a really good progress (about a month from release) we never mentioned its existence.
4) Understand that most members are at school/university and therefore most progress should occur on global holidays such as school holidays (to a degree) and other holidays. Doesn't mean 0 progress should occur. There always has to be some sort of progress, even as little as one level or a new texture.
5) Don't go level building until you get textures done first, especially if your theme is different than the textures we already know of. New textures are usually better than simple editing of the old MBG ones as anyone can edit these textures, but few can make real new textures of a different style.
6) Variety. People making levels usually end up doing 'tightropes' or some other hard shit. I've had mod leaders complain that their recruits could only produce tightrope levels. People don't like tightrope levels, especially really uber hard which everyone can easily do. Making good levels takes skill and practice. Again, vary your levels and don't make them hard. I found out that some of my recent level releases gain very good response from players, and none of them were hard.
Of course, when you make a level, plan ahead! Do not get stuck in the middle of a level with no ideas. If it occurs, either finish the level at that point or scrap it altogether. Pushing it further can ruin a level. I've seen a lot of levels from mods and tbh very little of them were good. Most were in the advanced-expert style and their creators seemed pretty happy on making another tightrope level.
Tightrope levels, btw, are the easiest to make and require no skill. They are also the bits that will ruin your level quite easy. One level that I remember got a bad score in LotM because of the tightrope at the end, when it would have done much better without it.
7) Testing. Often overlooked, but you should test a mod thoroughly. This is the quality assurance and if you don't do it, you can easily work on a mod for a year and have no one play it (when you release) because it sucks so much... something that would not have had happened had you got some testers. 2-3 non-staff testers are usually best. That means they do not make levels, they do not know a lot of the mod and never played it before.
Getting someone to test is EASY. Everyone wants to. Getting a GOOD tester is HARD. That's something not everyone can. If someone goes and says 'oh i want to beta test' or 'plzpzllpzpzl i wanna test', you say no to them. They're the type you avoid like fire as these people don't know how to properly test. The type you want are the good ones who have experience, respect and are good at Marble Blast. (99% chance) these people don't come to you, you need to look for them.
For MBP I always selected the staff myself, no one else did.
There are probably other things but can't be troubled atm to remember. Go read the MBP Staff interview in the MBP board, probably covers other things.
Beack says:
A mod needs a lot of time, and needs to have not only new textures or graphics, but new levels, scenary (pillars, towers, castles, landscapes, whatever.), sounds, and a main theme....in other words time and patience...lots of patience. I spent a year on Marble Blast Future and it's still incomplete, and has some bugs and presentation errors.
A good project takes over a year. Example: Marble Blast Platinum took 13 months to be complete (without counting the updates), and Marble Blast Fubar will take 4 years, but looks amazing.
If you want make levels there are many tools for this, like Torque Constructor (free), Quark (free), Torque Game Engine (not free), Torque Game Engine Advenced (not free). Spend some time on your skills, and start making things.
If you want continue don't lose interest in your mod, don't work too fast. It's better to do relaxed work, don't burn your mind up and you'll find that you can make some neat stuff.
You need a team to work, not only you doing it all...there are many things to pay close attention to. Don't run out of ideas, get bored with the project, leave it half-done. These things will kill your project.
In this forums there are a lot of levels biulders, DTS makers, Skybox creators, some sounds creators... in other words you have the support here to do a good project.
Don't take this as a negative comment about your mod, it's only a few tips for start...not only the skyboxes and the like.
Pablo says:
Levels are by far the most important part of the mod. However, I don't recommend leaving textures until the end. Textures play a big role in creating the feel of the mod, which I think makes or breaks it. I'd put the flow of a mod like this:
Feel > textures, graphics, sounds > levels (lengthiest step) > testing, fine-tuning
Very few mods even establish a feel before they die. MBA did, but it kind of failed on the levels. MBF might have, but after a year and a half with no updates I'm forced to conclude it's dead (Aayrl's protests notwithstanding). MBP and PQ were/will be such successes because they created an almost-tangible feel and stuck with it throughout development. Dozens of noob mods didn't, and therefore failed.
IsraeliRD says:
PQ doesn't go in the same route as anything. As a matter of fact, even MBP went on a similar route as any n00b mod out there. MBF is alive, Pablo doesn't want to accept it, but then again he's not on the staff list like some other people (myself included), so he doesn't know about anything.
Nobody says:
If you're planning on a mod, which isn't probably a good idea atm, then please plan out every level/gui interface BEFORE you make it. First, a purely graphic mod is boring, easy to do, and will be forgotten in ~2 weeks after release. If you actually make something as good as MBP (which required like 10 people to lift off, and at least two years), you need more people power, and more time. The reason for planning is because you might run out of ideas very soon. If level 6 is already an über-advanced invisible tightrope challenge that takes 30 minutes, and with weird tornados everywhere, you don't exactly have the right to make the NEXT level one beatable by Granny.
I would instead create a level pack, instead of machining through 100 levels, do like 1-5, that will be remembered for a while. Like the Camp series. If you must do a mod, do so methodically and remember - it's not a race. If you have a 10% progress increase in the next week I know it will fail. Take it slow. Srsly.
And also, I made a similar mod when I was a young child (no really, I did). I figured out how to use package contents and Photoshop and how the textures worked and made a similar mod, minus the GUI difference. BTW I did this because I didn't like all the orange so I removed it and replaced it with black. Which goes to show that it isn't something that needs flaunting. I obviously had no clue how to use the LE at that time. My first experience with the LE was moving around the start pad of JJJ just b/c I wanted to see what it could do.
All said, either make a level pack (fine, call it MBH), or continue on the mod, I don't care, but please, whatever you do, don't just modify graphics.
If you don't like the advice, please don't flame me. I'm not trying to be offensive here.
Matan says:
MBP was made on 13 or so months, then patched from initial release. The major release (1.10) took 3 months to do. I'm pretty sure that to do major changes and what not will take months. I practically agree with 'nobody' here, since most mods usually try and have loads of levels but don't feature new stuff besides graphics (textures/gui) and maybe sounds/music. It would be better as a level pack, and if you're going to mod it, at least have some new coding stuff.
The things I always say to leaders of mods is that they should:
1) Plan the theme of the mod, what additions will it have, what changes it will have, etc. If they don't have a plan, don't even start a mod.
2) Commit to it at all times, not abandon or get bored from the mod. This is most likely to happen to anyone, so you need to realize that unless you're going to commit, odds are against you (and in fact, don't bother making a mod). Actually odds are against you anyway, so you need to strive to show otherwise. Not easy at all.
3) Realize it's going to take (at the very least) 6 months to produce a low to average quality mod and if you plan on higher qualities then they need to expect 1 year. The more you want in a mod (levels, features, etc), the longer it should take. MBFubar probably is going to take 4 years, but then again, they have so many things they want to include (and give an excellent quality mod) so you should expect something really good. MB9 should take a few months as well; just because they have shiny new powerups doesn't mean they can be called 'good' so fast. They still need to take their time; nobody is rushing them. I also think they say too many things too fast (such as the powerups) rather than slow down and actually work out everything else first. With the MBP LBs, until we were in a really good progress (about a month from release) we never mentioned its existence.
4) Understand that most members are at school/university and therefore most progress should occur on global holidays such as school holidays (to a degree) and other holidays. Doesn't mean 0 progress should occur. There always has to be some sort of progress, even as little as one level or a new texture.
5) Don't go level building until you get textures done first, especially if your theme is different than the textures we already know of. New textures are usually better than simple editing of the old MBG ones as anyone can edit these textures, but few can make real new textures of a different style.
6) Variety. People making levels usually end up doing 'tightropes' or some other hard shit. I've had mod leaders complain that their recruits could only produce tightrope levels. People don't like tightrope levels, especially really uber hard which everyone can easily do. Making good levels takes skill and practice. Again, vary your levels and don't make them hard. I found out that some of my recent level releases gain very good response from players, and none of them were hard.
Of course, when you make a level, plan ahead! Do not get stuck in the middle of a level with no ideas. If it occurs, either finish the level at that point or scrap it altogether. Pushing it further can ruin a level. I've seen a lot of levels from mods and tbh very little of them were good. Most were in the advanced-expert style and their creators seemed pretty happy on making another tightrope level.
Tightrope levels, btw, are the easiest to make and require no skill. They are also the bits that will ruin your level quite easy. One level that I remember got a bad score in LotM because of the tightrope at the end, when it would have done much better without it.
7) Testing. Often overlooked, but you should test a mod thoroughly. This is the quality assurance and if you don't do it, you can easily work on a mod for a year and have no one play it (when you release) because it sucks so much... something that would not have had happened had you got some testers. 2-3 non-staff testers are usually best. That means they do not make levels, they do not know a lot of the mod and never played it before.
Getting someone to test is EASY. Everyone wants to. Getting a GOOD tester is HARD. That's something not everyone can. If someone goes and says 'oh i want to beta test' or 'plzpzllpzpzl i wanna test', you say no to them. They're the type you avoid like fire as these people don't know how to properly test. The type you want are the good ones who have experience, respect and are good at Marble Blast. (99% chance) these people don't come to you, you need to look for them.
For MBP I always selected the staff myself, no one else did.
There are probably other things but can't be troubled atm to remember. Go read the MBP Staff interview in the MBP board, probably covers other things.
Beack says:
A mod needs a lot of time, and needs to have not only new textures or graphics, but new levels, scenary (pillars, towers, castles, landscapes, whatever.), sounds, and a main theme....in other words time and patience...lots of patience. I spent a year on Marble Blast Future and it's still incomplete, and has some bugs and presentation errors.
A good project takes over a year. Example: Marble Blast Platinum took 13 months to be complete (without counting the updates), and Marble Blast Fubar will take 4 years, but looks amazing.
If you want make levels there are many tools for this, like Torque Constructor (free), Quark (free), Torque Game Engine (not free), Torque Game Engine Advenced (not free). Spend some time on your skills, and start making things.
If you want continue don't lose interest in your mod, don't work too fast. It's better to do relaxed work, don't burn your mind up and you'll find that you can make some neat stuff.
You need a team to work, not only you doing it all...there are many things to pay close attention to. Don't run out of ideas, get bored with the project, leave it half-done. These things will kill your project.
In this forums there are a lot of levels biulders, DTS makers, Skybox creators, some sounds creators... in other words you have the support here to do a good project.
Don't take this as a negative comment about your mod, it's only a few tips for start...not only the skyboxes and the like.
Pablo says:
Levels are by far the most important part of the mod. However, I don't recommend leaving textures until the end. Textures play a big role in creating the feel of the mod, which I think makes or breaks it. I'd put the flow of a mod like this:
Feel > textures, graphics, sounds > levels (lengthiest step) > testing, fine-tuning
Very few mods even establish a feel before they die. MBA did, but it kind of failed on the levels. MBF might have, but after a year and a half with no updates I'm forced to conclude it's dead (Aayrl's protests notwithstanding). MBP and PQ were/will be such successes because they created an almost-tangible feel and stuck with it throughout development. Dozens of noob mods didn't, and therefore failed.
IsraeliRD says:
PQ doesn't go in the same route as anything. As a matter of fact, even MBP went on a similar route as any n00b mod out there. MBF is alive, Pablo doesn't want to accept it, but then again he's not on the staff list like some other people (myself included), so he doesn't know about anything.
