file MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll

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06 Jun 2016 20:26 - 07 Jun 2016 21:00 #1 by Frostfire
MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll was created by Frostfire
Poll has been removed. Refer to last post by me on this topic for information.
Last edit: 07 Jun 2016 21:00 by Frostfire.

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06 Jun 2016 21:51 #2 by hPerks
Replied by hPerks on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll
Voted for all three. How about King of the Ring as well as King of the Marble? ;)

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06 Jun 2016 22:59 - 06 Jun 2016 23:39 #3 by Kalle29
Replied by Kalle29 on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll
ok I'm gonna be brutally honest here, this strawpoll needs rethinking. It's obvious that you only let us vote on levels that you yourself dislike. Either let us vote on every map, or have a list of objective criteria that determines which levels are unfair to play on.

For example, a level like Horizon has a double blue spawn, effectively making it a platinum gem and thusly more RNG based than many other maps, which is an example of a criteria we could use to ban certain maps.

I voted for "none of them" as I don't see why these specific maps should be banned while all the other ones get a free pass.

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Last edit: 06 Jun 2016 23:39 by Kalle29.
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06 Jun 2016 23:15 #4 by Regislian
Replied by Regislian on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll
I don't get it, last year we had a bunch of drama over the lvls that he did pick to not be included in the tournament (which I get in a way) but now he's letting people choose whether they want to include the lvls that weren't included last year and still this BS?
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06 Jun 2016 23:24 #5 by Kalle29
Replied by Kalle29 on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll
Yes, because he's choosing maps that he wants to get rid off. There are many maps that could be argued for or against in terms of disallowment, which includes maps other than the ones we are allowed to vote for. I gave the example of Horizon in my post above and why you could argue for a ban on it, yet we can't even vote on it at all.

In other communities (when there are unfair levels) they usually have clear criteria in order to ban them. Things like RNG, size, and unfair positions are usual arguments to ban a level/map, I see no reasons at all given in this poll as to why we should ban these levels (and why no others are to be banned).

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06 Jun 2016 23:28 - 06 Jun 2016 23:30 #6 by Regislian
Replied by Regislian on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll
Because these are the levels that weren't allowed last year. You are free to choose 'none of them' (I did too) but there's no need calling this poll a joke, since he's just trying to get some input in what he can do different from last year.
Last edit: 06 Jun 2016 23:30 by Regislian.
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06 Jun 2016 23:46 - 06 Jun 2016 23:48 #7 by Kalle29
Replied by Kalle29 on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll
If the word "joke" is what bothered you then I can edit it out (just did in fact). I don't care about it personally, I just want this to stay on topic.

Because these are the levels that weren't allowed last year.

Why make the same mistake again? Saying "this is what we did before" is no reason at all to make a bad ban-list again. If something is bad it needs to be changed.


he's just trying to get some input in what he can do different from last year.

That's exactly what I'm givng him. Either let us vote on all levels or get some objective criteria to make the level-banning fair. That is my input on the issue - because what's happing right now is that's he's almost doing the same mistake as last year.

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Last edit: 06 Jun 2016 23:48 by Kalle29.

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07 Jun 2016 00:49 - 07 Jun 2016 00:55 #8 by HiGuy
Replied by HiGuy on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll
My 2 cents: the way the poll is designed makes the results unable to be interpreted correctly. Here's an example:

I voted for "No PQ levels" only. The way the results are currently tallying, I imagine the only "keep kotm/ring" choice is "none of them", as we cannot tell if someone voted to disallow PQ levels ONLY or disallow PQ levels as well as Ring/Kotm. The multiple-vote format makes the results count data, and the "none of the above" option would only work if the other options were mutually exclusive, or if you recorded how many people voted total and for which options.
A better format for the poll would be to have "Allow Kotm" / "Ban Kotm", "Allow Ring" / "Ban Ring", "Allow PQ Levels" / "Ban PQ Levels" as options, because otherwise it is impossible to know the actual counts of each.

Besides that point, I don't think we should ban any publicly available maps from the tournament. Everyone has the chance to practice them, and their only difference is that they require a different skill set than the majority of the levels. The variety would be much appreciated, and it would give slightly less traditional players more of a chance.

PQ in a nutshell
function clientcmd12dothepq() {
    commandToClient(LocalClientConnection, '34onthedancefloor');
}
Last edit: 07 Jun 2016 00:55 by HiGuy.
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07 Jun 2016 02:01 - 07 Jun 2016 02:45 #9 by Frostfire
Replied by Frostfire on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll
Taking higuy's suggested format and remaking poll. Please revote.

Ideally no maps would be gotten rid of besides of Nukesweeper Revisited. Even though I, personally, dislike Ring (alot) that is not the reason it is on this poll. The only maps in this poll are the ones with special gameplay elements.

Ring - funky gravity
PQ levels - not everyone can practice them
King of the Marble was an arbitrary pick last year due to the crazy ping on it, however I am seeing if people still want it removed. None of the other maps were ever in consideration for removal last year, nor will they be this year.

Kalle29 wrote:
ok I'm gonna be brutally honest here, this strawpoll needs rethinking. It's obvious that you only let us vote on levels that you yourself dislike.


No. If I was doing that ramps reloaded would surely be in the poll, and I could make the excuse it is too luck based with the blues, as you did with Horizon. The reasons these are in the poll are stated above.

On another point, I am not sure what you want to happen. Are you posting because you want Horizon banned, because you don't want these maps banned, or just because you disagree with the way I am doing this? If it is the latter then that is your own problem. Feel free to run another tournament in the future in which the map-banning is done the way you like.
Last edit: 07 Jun 2016 02:45 by Frostfire.

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07 Jun 2016 15:33 #10 by Kalle29
Replied by Kalle29 on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll

The only maps in this poll are the ones with special gameplay elements.

Now I disagree with that.

- Ring isn't the only map with special gravity elements to it. Many people have complained about the maps with gravity modifiers. They can also be argued to have "funky gravity".
- PQ levels are free to practice for anyone who has unlocked them. I have never seen a competitive game ever ban maps because they happen to be unlockable.

King of the Marble was an arbitrary pick last year due to the crazy ping on it

OK what ping are you talking about? Ping is something you have to deal with on all levels, not only KotM. In fact, KotM usually runs smoother than many other levels due to being so small.

however I am seeing if people still want it removed.

Why? You've already admitted that was an arbitrary pick so it has no place on the potential ban list. Seems like you're only keeping it in the poll because you don't like it.

Also you contradict yourself here:
1. "The only maps in this poll are the ones with special gameplay elements."
2. "King of the Marble was an arbitrary pick"

None of the other maps were ever in consideration for removal last year, nor will they be this year.

Why? Once again, you can argue for the removal of other maps as well, it's not like your list is the only one that has maps with "special gameplay elements".

No. If I was doing that ramps reloaded would surely be in the poll, and I could make the excuse it is too luck based with the blues, as you did with Horizon. The reasons these are in the poll are stated above

The reasons these are in the poll are stated above

King of the Marble was an arbitrary pick


The point is that you don't have good reasons for your picks. As I've said before, many maps can be argued for or against, yet almost all of these are ignored and you only let us vote on your picks.

I also want to point out the fact that there is nothing inherently wrong with strange elements to a map, it just makes you use different skills and creates diversity. Sometimes you need to step out of your comfort zone.

On another point, I am not sure what you want to happen

I want the ban list to be fair, either let us vote on all maps or none of them. Having a small list of maps that you personally chose is what I don't like. Preferably we don't ban any map from the tournament.

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07 Jun 2016 16:10 - 07 Jun 2016 16:11 #11 by Frostfire
Replied by Frostfire on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll

Kalle29 wrote:
Having a small list of maps that you personally chose is what I don't like. Preferably we don't ban any map from the tournament.


If you don't like the list I chose, but don't want any of the other maps banned, as you say here, then just vote 'don't ban' on all of them, and you will have in effect voted to keep all maps unbanned.
Last edit: 07 Jun 2016 16:11 by Frostfire.

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07 Jun 2016 18:49 #12 by Nature Freak
Replied by Nature Freak on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll
Hmmm,
Why couldn't you just put every official map on that list? Then it would be totally free of bias. That just seems logical to me.
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07 Jun 2016 21:12 #13 by Frostfire
Replied by Frostfire on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll
All official maps will be allowed in the tournament with two exceptions: Nukesweeper Revisited, and, because not all players are able to practice them, the PQ maps.
This is the final decision on maps, and will not be changed.
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07 Jun 2016 23:47 #14 by Nature Freak
Replied by Nature Freak on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll
Okay, understanding that this will not be changed, could I make one final point? Can't players who want to practice PQ maps join Thistle or Tsuf and play them there while someone who has the PQ maps hosts?

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08 Jun 2016 00:24 - 08 Jun 2016 00:25 #15 by Weather
Replied by Weather on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll

NatureFreak wrote:
Okay, understanding that this will not be changed, could I make one final point? Can't players who want to practice PQ maps join Thistle or Tsuf and play them there while someone who has the PQ maps hosts?

Even then, those players are pretty unlikely to have the option to practice as much as those who can anytime.

...Unless you copied the .mis files and used those, right? :silly:
Last edit: 08 Jun 2016 00:25 by Weather.

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08 Jun 2016 01:19 #16 by Nockess
Replied by Nockess on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll
The mission and interior files are in the .pak files in the game directory and I don't think there's a way to open them easily. Good luck getting those. ;)

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08 Jun 2016 18:43 #17 by hPerks
Replied by hPerks on topic MB MP Tourney - Disallowed Maps Poll
Welp, glad the PQ maps are out at least. Hopefully KotM isn't a popular choice (although my wifi right now is one of the best on the forums ;))

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