Marble Blast Super [INCOMPLETE RELEASE]

Frostfire wrote: Isn't that from PQ? 0:28 AND 1:10

Yes it is. It undoubtably is. Really, Super team? It's pretty much the same level minus the fancy spinning fans. It even has the same colors.

So, is the problem the level or the idea of sidescrolling? Because we can remove/modify the level if that is the case.
That level has been there for a long time. We can change it if you want. We wan't this mod to be completely PQ-free.

Endy wrote: So, is the problem the level or the idea of sidescrolling? Because we can remove/modify the level if that is the case.
That level has been there for a long time. We can change it if you want. We wan't this mod to be completely PQ-free.

The problem is the fact that it is the exact same level. It has 3 ramps that you have to roll up. Have you compared the two? Its the same thing even the grid is the same. Theyre both blue and both scaled down. Its like you pulled up the trailer, paused it at the point Frostfire said, and copied it. Sorry but it really does look like that.

I like the side view bit BUT.. It just shows that you've copied an idea off PQ. You guys did say that you would comply with the terms of service BY REMOVING ALL PQ IDEAS, TEXTURES etc

PQ doesn't own rights to sidescrolling, stew. Anyone can take the idea of sidescrolling. The problem was that the level was the exact same, which will be fixed immediately.
If your logic was true, then water would be considered "copying".

Well, sidescrolling, something we have seen before (in the PQ trailer), many of us have not played such levels with sidescrolling and so, with enjoyable, creative levels, it should still be replayable, in both mods (Super & PQ) due to the lack of playtime with sidescrolling for the large majority of the community. It's when older ideas are wholly/largely copied, without much scope to further explore, is when the entire idea should be scrapped.

Hint:
'...enjoyable, creative levels...'

Lucario, don't delete the post and the video!
(He said it on Skype, deleted it because of complaints???)

Lucario uploaded a video of a level that was never officially released, and the creator requested him to take it down. So there will be no reuploads of that.

Regarding the sidescrolling level; PQ does of course not have the sole rights to that idea, but to blatantly copy PQ levels is not OK.

Kalle29 wrote: but to blatantly copy PQ levels is not OK.

Thanks for the advice Endy, but this is what I meant.

I was confused. I thought you were referring to whole IDEA of sidescrolling.

It's clear to the community that the mod has no credibility right now. Why would people believe that the idea was original? Even if it may have been one, the content that was produced was a suspicious mock-up of the design shown in the trailer. Had you done something original in terms of the levels themselves, perhaps adding in your own unique ideas, then this idea would not be considered a rip-off.

Adding on to this, the fact that you uploaded and published a video to feature this unoriginal work (no matter how old it may be) shows a lack of dedication and pride in this mod. It's not about all the fancy start or end pads. It's about the other 98% or so of the level that you play that matters.

Creativity counts.

Not this again............

Emerald Marble wrote: Not this again............

And you're not being helpful because it is not happening again.

What is being told is that the mod's "credibility" (perception) is being low because they were just outted by the community for continuing for the nth time what they were told NOT to do. Something that has been happening for couple of years now.

No one here complains about the side-scrolling mode.
No one complains about the camera adjustment against the one in PQ.
Everyone complains about the level design that was shown to be identical to that in PQ.

So because I'm in a good mood for once, I'll give good helpful info for the mod.
This is the same advice I gave many other people and mods and they haven't followed through.
Maybe this time people will listen...
(not hopeful)

This pertains to what is shown to the public in terms of screenshots, videos and level design. Additional advice regarding other matters are on the bottom.

Screenshots:

- DO show off the feature you want to show. This is the centre of the screenshot. Crop if necessary.

- Make sure your screenshot's background is proper. Background is the level, the skybox, scenery, GUI etc. Crappy level being shown doesn't help. It is not something anyone want to play.

- DO hype people. If the feature is obvious then you want to explain it and perhaps PART of it's usage. Do NOT reveal all your cards. If the feature isn't very obvious, do NOT go further on it. Let people guess. It's way more fun to see them do.


Videos:
- Do NOT speedrun the level. EVER. This shows how to do the best path for the level and kills its replayability instantly.

- Do NOT show Easter Eggs. More fun if the public finds it themselves. If you DO show them, make sure they are properly hidden. PQ had several of those in the trailer/early spotlights that were revealed later on.

- Do NOT show Time Travels that are not in the way, or are harder to get, or ANY items that may produce shortcuts. We want to figure out how to get them ourselves. Hidden content is GOOD. EXAMPLE: Spotlight #5 does not show off an easy to get Time Travel. You aren't aware of its existence.

- Do NOT use ANY SHORTCUTS, small or big, UNLESS you're comfortable with them not destroying the level. Show the INTENDED route, the FULL route. Shortcuts can skip on important features.

- Go SLOW. Show it off!

- Do NOT showcase all your creative challenges or features, even in levels. You want people to be surprised!

- DO focus on the features. Either have us guess, or show them in ACTION. Do NOT show their full usage. Keep some of them to the full release. PQ Spotlight #2 demo'd the Super Jump and the Ice Shard, with the Ice Shard being the focus feature. We didn't need to show off a full level, so we created a demo level specifically to show the ice shard.

- DO focus on the levels. The levels we see should have a really high standard and are very polished. A boring or bad level will be the centre of criticism and draw away attention from features. BAD LEVELS = BAD FEATURES. GOOD FEATURE + GREAT LEVEL = SUPERB RECEPTION. See PQ Spotlight #3. Everyone wants to play it as soon as they get their hands on the mod.

- DO showcase your current progress. The further you are, the better you are off. Spotlight #5 demo'd not only a feature, but the shapes progression as well and our take on them.

- If it's bad, DO NOT SHOW IT.

- Involve the WHOLE STAFF. Every screenshot and video and every segment and what is shown must be something the whole staff discuss and agree. It will take hours but it is worth it. Make sure everyone is equally happy with the screenshot/video. Repeat recording the same segments over and over again.
PQ Trailer took roughly a week to create, review and get all staff be happy.


Level design:
- The levels MAKE the features. A feature added to a level as an afterthought, without the level even being built for this feature, is a TERRIBLE idea. Do you see a cannon in Let's Roll? no. The level is built WITH the feature(s) in mind, it is built FOR the feature(s). Cannon levels are built WITH cannons in mind the whole time.

- Do NOT purposely add shortcuts. The moment you purposely add them, the moment your level's replayability takes a dive. Let people find the shortcuts themselves.

- Careful with your scenery! In Marble Blast Emerald the scenery ended up creating the shortcuts, and this destroyed the mod's levels.

- DO create levels with shortcuts ONLY if they are intended and DO NOT break the whole level.

Phil never wanted any shortcuts in his levels and always designed them to not have those UNLESS they were INTENDED by him. I was more afraid to show him videos of my levels when I tested because he'd instantly change the level and block out the shortcuts. It was a good satisfying feeling to find any he missed or didn't know about when they were for public because he couldn't do a re-release. Pretty much almost all his levels have shortcuts in them, and most are completely unintended.


Where did Super go wrong?

- Did not SHOW OFF the features and usage. What do I have a compass at the top for? I don't need to know any direction unless it's actually important.

- What do I have a back-camera window for? Is something ever chasing me constantly?

- Is this Marble Blast Super or Marble Blast Ultra? Start pad animation, checkpoints and features shown in Ultra are identical in Super, or have slight alterations. I don't want to see Ultra, I want to see Super by itself!
Your problem is that the team that works on Super is the same one that works on Ultra and is unable to come up with distinct ideas that are unique to one of them are not the other.
This means no creativity/originality.
Learn to kill off features from Ultra before it goes out to public, otherwise Super having them is useless and no one wants to play it. Effectively you killed Super by yourself as we aren't shown anything new. If you want something in Ultra, make sure it only exists in Ultra.
Do you have water in Super? Good. Doesn't exist in Ultra.
Do you have side-scrolling in Super? Doesn't exist in Ultra.
Do you have nature scenery in Super? Doesn't exist (or completely different) in Ultra.
Do you have an awesome feature/content in Super? Doesn't exist in Ultra.


It is likely we have also seen problems laid out the in videos/screenshots/level design above. I do not remember which.

Addtional posts to reference you to:
- Aayrl's post on page 5. He is right about Fubar going through many iterations and slowly getting better. Yes, it took him 7+ years, but the mod actually reaches its original goals and above them. The levels design currently is heaps better than the original. PQ is the same.

- RC's post on page 5. Correct again. Fubar (and PQ) are in production for so long but have enough out there in terms of innovation that makes ANYONE still be hyped to them.

- Aayrl's follow-up has excellent advice for you as well. Mull it over. Read it a few times and take it in.

MBP was a success in terms of level design back in the day. Today, not really. It still has a few levels that stood the test of time. Right now it's feature heavy to the point that everyone has it because it has all the content we need.
We learned a lot from MBP and the community reception over the next few years when we started, and worked on, PQ.


Lastly I'd like you to ask yourself this:
When is Super planned for release?
Talk to the staff. All of them. How much time and dedication everyone has? Most of them are 10-14 years old? So probably a year max from now. 30+ other mods with the same range of age didn't last longer than a year.

So we have two choices:

1) If you're looking at this year (Dec 2015/Jan 2016), you may as well focus on the levels and wrap up features. Get shapes done ASAP, music/skybox, ensure gameplay is good enough and levels are polished. Consider this a learning experience and take the community reception to the levels as what you get.

2) If you're looking at next year (Jun-Jul 2016), considering revising features and making sure you get them up and properly designed. Now how many levels you have? 50? 60? 80? Kill off at least 50% which are bad and start again. Don't be afraid to delete even 66-75% of your level content.
Deleted levels may have SOME good original/creative content so take those to other levels that work with those, or re-create for the new levels properly.
The community said it many times and I'll say it again: we prefer 40 excellent levels over 100 poorly designed ones. Right now you're at the quantity part of the scale, not the quality one.

My suggestion? Less amount of levels, greater amount of polish. Consider an early next year release and take this as the experience every single one of you needs. Who knows, you might make a new mod (2+ years to produce) and this time have the experience and community feedback from Super to go on with it so that it is better.

Final tip: this is the summer's holidays. Spend most of it developing Super. You won't have this amount of free time starting September.


Best of luck,
Matan

N.B. - Some might say this is a bad move on my end, but if you're being serious for a change and take the above and really transform yourself and do the 180 degree circle we're all hoping you are, then I'll be happy to look at your level screenshots/videos walkthroughs/designs and give you feedback. I do want you to understand if I say a level's bad and should be removed, you take that advice as it's done for your own good.

Regarding speedrunning... Is it okay if you do one run to show off the level, then speedrun it? As long as you don't show super secret shortcuts. Also, it's okay to use some physics that are similar to Ultra. For example, the blast in MBS can have the same height as MBU. The respawn key can be the same in MBS as in MBU. That's the kind of stuff that's there, and I don't see a problem with that. Also, regarding Emerald's post, it's entirely up to the staff whether they want to start an argument again. I'm willing to call a truce, but I don't know if ProMarbler is.

Eguy wrote: Regarding speedrunning... Is it okay if you do one run to show off the level, then speedrun it? As long as you don't show super secret shortcuts.

IsraeliRD wrote: Videos:
- Do NOT speedrun the level. EVER. This shows how to do the best path for the level and kills its replayability instantly.

Still the same thing applies. Part of the replayability factor of any mod is finding shortcuts and then performing them. You WILL lose replayability because people will start to perform YOUR shortcuts rather than trying to find them themselves.

Eguy wrote: Also, it's okay to use some physics that are similar to Ultra.

Yes, no one says you cannot.
We are talking about NEW content that is currently in Ultra (that 1.8 preview has shown as well as any currently published content) that CANNOT be in super.

> "Is it okay if you do one run to show off the level, then speedrun it?"
>> "Do NOT speedrun the level. EVER."
"Ever" means "ever". The meaning isn't going to change from that. I personally agree that levels which have been "spedrun" vigorously aren't much fun to play, because then you know the "best" and "only" path. What I like about MBP and other created levels is that I can still find new, exciting paths each time I play, so it feels like I've accomplished something when I work hard and finally get my new idea down. You don't get that chance otherwise.

> "As long as you don't show super secret shortcuts."
>> "Do NOT purposely add shortcuts [...] "
That strongly suggests that you're trying to "conceal" shortcuts (knowingly) in such a level. Any such "super-secret" shortcuts are no secret if you know them, and won't be at all one when people discover it for themselves and publish it on YouTube. If your level has such a shortcut in it, then that shortcut is a flaw, and you should remove it!

> "[It's] okay to use some physics that are similar to Ultra."
>> "If you want something in Ultra, make sure it only exists in Ultra." (see that entire section, really)
You can't start making "exceptions" to everything. That's the wrong kind of thinking, and it'll become (has become) a habit. If you want to differentiate the gameplay of Super from that of Ultra, you must make the features mutually exclusive, meaning you can have it in one mod or the other, but the feature cannot be shared between both. MBPU was designed to be a mod of MBG, as a mod of MBG. Whirligig could have chosen to try and recreate the style and features of MBP, but that would ruin the marvel of MBPU. Instead, MBPU made itself stand out as a separate mod by keeping it's features separate and different from that of MBP.

> "[...] the blast in MBS can have the same height as MBU."
>> (see the previous quote)
You're focusing on the minor details of physics. Ever heard of the XY problem? You're trying to make sure the details distinguish themselves from the other mod, but instead you should be focusing on removing the replicated feature entirely. If three mods are going to have a "blast," then that feature isn't going to intrigue anyone at all. They know it's just going to be the same, unoriginal functionality. Focus on fixing the original problem, instead of trying and compensate for other faults that you could not have to deal with at all.

> "The respawn key can be the same in MBS as in MBU."
(see my previous remark)
Once again, you focus on the trivial details. Perhaps you don't realize that you (most likely) have an option to change the binding of that key from the default? That's like saying that it's okay for the marble movement controls to be the same in MBP as they are in MBG. Of course they are! It's a natural default. Changing that would only annoy and inconvenience the user.

> "That's the kind of stuff that's there, and I don't see a problem with that."
Keep in mind that you've over-generalized. Having Blast and having the same respawn key are two different realms of design. Marble Blast's physics engine itself isn't going to change that much, no matter how many features you add to the gameplay. "Gameplay dynamics" is a better term for it. The interactions are what defines the player's experience the most. And if you "don't see a problem with that," keep in mind that you are NOT the only person who will be playing the mods. Everyone on the team and everyone who wants to play in the community will also be playing each game, and their experience should not depend on your personal opinion. Do you think people care exactly the same way as you do? Do you think they'll share the same, or closely similar, views? If so, then you are wrong. If we all agreed on exactly the same thing, then things would be boring, no variety, no politics, and no unique ideas and innovations would ever come to be. So, let people voice their opinion! Let them share their ideas and criticism, from both the community and your own team! If you don't ever heed to their advice, then that makes you ignorant and somewhat oppressive.

> "Also, regarding Emerald's post, it's entirely up to the staff whether they want to start an argument again."
His post wasn't helpful or contributive at all, and only kept to prove Matan's point. And it is not just the staff who cause the arguments. The conflict exists on both sides. You could even consider that statement itself as provocative, since you've gone so far as to put the blame on us. I haven't seen anyone but the staff try and hold the community together on this issue.

> "I'm willing to call a truce, but I don't know if ProMarbler is."
Now, that is just mudslinging. I've probably been come across as harsh at times, but it's not without just cause. I would've likely reconsidered writing this post and letting it slide before I wrote this if you hadn't decided to hurl mud directly at my face. I may not be the best writer, but I do try to control the tone and message I present. And there shouldn't be a truce. This needs to be resolved.

~ PM

NOTE: I see that Matan responded before me. Just consider it as further elaboration.

The level I was going to speedrun has NO SHORTCUTS WHATSOEVER BESIDES A TINY LITTLE SS EDGE HIT. Unless you’re very, very experienced at the game, you CANNOT PULL THIS OFF, EVEN IF YOU SEE IT ON YOUTUBE. The shortcut doesn’t even save more than 5-10 seconds. I can name about 10 people in the whole community who could do that. And don’t talk to me when I’ve been busting my butt to make a recording of that level for you guys to see. Do you think it’s necessary, or even possible, to bork up the level in super weird and horrible ways just to remove that tiny WR-caliber shortcut? What do you think? Shortcuts are meant to be found. Tricky and clever wall hits, edge hits or stuff like that are allowed. Things that are not allowed to be in a level are things like being able to jump down to a platform easily, or able to skip a whole section of a level with one jump. Those can be prevented by OOB triggers. Matan, in your level Fizzy Cherry Soda 2, you didn’t try to prevent the traplaunch shortcut. Some shortcuts are left there as a bonus.

Regarding the MBU stuff, what I meant wasn’t physics. Maybe I said it wrong, but I was referring to the minor gameplay elements rather than the way the game works as a whole. And, the blast seems to be thought about too much, like a major element of the game that can only be found in a certain mod. Think about the blast as a minor element that can be chosen to be added to some mods or chosen to be excluded from some as well. Consider it an optional feature. Plus, MBU has rights to the blast originally, not MBP’s team. Matt can do whatever he wants with it.

ProMarbler, sorry if I seemed like I was harsh, or “throwing dirt at your face,” but what I meant was that with what you were saying it seemed you were against the mod, while I want the rest of this topic to continue in a friendly manner. Emerald’s post was speculation that an argument would start again, and I don’t blame him for not wanting things to start up again. Since your post may have come off a bit harsh to me or him, it seemed kind of like you weren’t at peace with the mod. And, don’t talk to me for defending his “useless” post, when I’m not the one who made it, even though I think his post was legit and you guys might just have something against him for no reason. Emerald, you’ve been very nice to us lately.

Sorry if this is too harsh, I don’t mean to point fingers at anyone or be bossy towards the staff. I’m just trying to counter some things I disagree with, and as a member of the MBS staff I am allowed to.

~Eguy
P. S. aren't we getting a little picky about parts of a level that resemble pq in only the slightest possible way?

Trying to sum up what others have said in an objective way.

Eguy wrote: Shortcuts are meant to be found.

Right, so let us find them. That's what the people above are trying to say. Yes, you can have shortcuts, but don't give them away. Most of the fun in running a level is trying to find these shortcuts. Showing off shortcuts takes away from the joy in optimizing a path. You want people to have the best possible experience with your mod, so let them innovate.

Eguy wrote: Some shortcuts are left there as a bonus.

Sure, they can be left there, but don't intentionally design your level to have major shortcuts. This just reduces from that shortcut-finding experience.

This thread is starting to get a bit out of control. Let's try keep the discussion constructive. Thanks.

The thing about shortcuts is what I was trying to say. That you should find shortcuts. What others were saying seemed more like "no shortcuts whatsoever."

I apologize as well for some of the accusations I made. I wrote it to get my point across, not to be mean or harsh. I try my best to keep a friendly attitude, but sometimes I get a tad too irritated.

Additionally, you pulled meaning out of my post that I didn't realize would be perceived as such. I don't intend to be super-negative on the idea of shortcuts. I assumed that the shortcut was something you could easily manage to remove, based on the way you worded it. I'm fine with a minor, subtle shortcut or two if the use of that shortcut does not negatively affect replayability. I know if you use shortcuts as the design of the level, you can still keep replayability high, as is the case for (as an example) Byzantine Helix.

For MBU, I realized that I was basically nit-picking grammatical details. I didn't see a way to rephrase it any better, so I kept that part in, hoping it wouldn't be taken that way. Though, MBU is as much owned by Matt P as MBG is owned by us. He doesn't own the rights to MBU. He may lead his project, but that's it. MBP used the blast, borrowing it from MBO and the original MBU.

My feelings are not against this mod. There is just an atmosphere of negativity present among the staff, who all generally converse together and share their feelings, and I have not seen the best from what I hear and what is posted in this thread. If you can make things work, the mod can be successful.

The staff and I also have a biased opinion about Emerald, since he poorly follows the common-sense rules. If he would refrain from posting one-word or one-phrase posts, it would be much better.

Now, don't get too strong of a sense of entitlement. No one person (including me) is above everyone else.

The level resembled a scene of PQ in more that the "slightest possible way". It could have resembled it more, but it could have resembled it less.

Eguy wrote: ProMarbler, sorry if I seemed like I was harsh, or “throwing dirt at your face,” but what I meant was that with what you were saying it seemed you were against the mod, while I want the rest of this topic to continue in a friendly manner. Emerald’s post was speculation that an argument would start again, and I don’t blame him for not wanting things to start up again. Since your post may have come off a bit harsh to me or him, it seemed kind of like you weren’t at peace with the mod.

Pro had just reasons to be against the mod in the past. He hasn't instigated anything at all.

Eguy wrote: And, don’t talk to me for defending his “useless” post, when I’m not the one who made it, even though I think his post was legit

He's saying the post is useless because it is very small and adds almost nothing to the conversation. Plus, on previous occasions, Emerald has made many one-word posts saying "ok" or the like. And by saying "I think his post was legit" you actually are defending it.

Eguy wrote: and you guys might just have something against him for no reason. Emerald, you’ve been very nice to us lately.

Once again, some one-word "ok" posts - and the whole fiasco before his tempban.

And...how was he supposed to know not to use one word posts? He was just trying to be friendly, take his perspective. I know it says no super short posts in the rules board but did he even know it existed? Probably not. Maybe he should read it if he didn't do it thoroughly, but for now this topic is getting off it's topic. And, Pro, MBSuper righted its wrongs. There are much better things in it now. And no stolen PQ code.

His alternate account thanked that Rules post. And I wasn't claiming stolen code...? I just remarked on that particular level, not the entire mod.

Sure, they can be left there, but don't intentionally design your level to have major shortcuts. This just reduces from that shortcut-finding experience.

Yeah,don't do what Gerson did and hide 24 TT's in his levels and then basicly everyone knows it now.Luckily he removed this on the GLC version of the level,Timely Movement.And if youre makeing a level, dont just hide a Helicopter behind the start that makes it easy to the end.

I don't mean to act as if I'm an authority, but there are a few ideas i'd like to throw out there.

Eguy wrote: ProMarbler, sorry if I seemed like I was harsh, or “throwing dirt at your face,” but what I meant was that with what you were saying it seemed you were against the mod, while I want the rest of this topic to continue in a friendly manner.

At this point and as far as I can see, everyone who has posted over the last several weeks has given constructive, friendly criticism on the mod, which is an improvement upon what we've seen in the past. The thing that we need to realize is that constructive criticism isn't always going to come across as praise. Rather than focusing on the tone of one's wording, focus on the content.

Eguy wrote: Emerald’s post was speculation that an argument would start again, and I don’t blame him for not wanting things to start up again. Since your post may have come off a bit harsh to me or him, it seemed kind of like you weren’t at peace with the mod. And, don’t talk to me for defending his “useless” post, when I’m not the one who made it, even though I think his post was legit and you guys might just have something against him for no reason. Emerald, you’ve been very nice to us lately.

Again, nobody wants shit to start up again. That's the last thing we want to happen, as I think I speak for the community when I say we've wasted far too much time and energy arguing and flaming each other. But it's when people say things like 'you guys might just have something against him for no reason' in public that problems begin the arise again. If you have a personal vendetta against someone for whatever reason, don't post it in a public topic, but settle the problem in private. If you feel offended by something, don't commit an offense back.

Eguy wrote: I’m just trying to counter some things I disagree with, and as a member of the MBS staff I am allowed to.

There's absolutely no problem with disagreeing with someone, but you should be more sure about their stance and argument before you jump to any conclusions. Unless you know you are factually correct on a topic, we should keep more of a 'brainstorming' mentality where we share ideas and communicate with each other. That right there has been the number one issue with this entire mod and the controversy surrounding it; nobody wants to communicate, and that goes for both sides.

If anyone else wants to add or counter anything, feel free.

"rather than one's tone, focus on the content."
I disagree. Content was fine on his post, and I admit to getting a little worked up over this, but it's worth the effort to make your posts sound nicer, friendlier, and more suggestive, and not sound like you're wasting your time with the mod. I know that's what you were trying to do, because you said "creativity counts " at the end, but it didn't come off that way when you said stuff like "the mod has no credibility right now." We changed the stuff that you mentioned right away. That HAS to count for credibility.

"But it's when people say things like 'you guys might just have something against him for no reason' in public that problems begin the arise again"
What I said was true, but I immediately, and I mean IMMEDIATELY moved that argument to private discussion before you even said anything. By the way, if you're so angry at HIM for posting it, don't throw crap at ME for defending it.

"There's absolutely no problem with disagreeing with someone, but you should be more sure about their stance and argument before you jump to any conclusions"
Well, people are allowed to respond to this topic, aren't they? If I'm wrong about anything, which is certainly possible, just tell me and I'll eat my words.

I hope you understand that I'm trying to communicate things rather than boss people around or make people realize I'm right.
~Eguy
EDIT: Did anyone besides us know that the PQ-like side camera angle level was only a test and was not going to stay in the mod?

Eguy wrote: "rather than one's tone, focus on the content."
I disagree. Content was fine on his post, and I admit to getting a little worked up over this, but it's worth the effort to make your posts sound nicer, friendlier, and more suggestive, and not sound like you're wasting your time with the mod. I know that's what you were trying to do, because you said "creativity counts " at the end, but it didn't come off that way when you said stuff like "the mod has no credibility right now." We changed the stuff that you mentioned right away. That HAS to count for credibility.

It came off as constructive criticism. When matan wrote that post he wasn't trying to sound 'nice'. He was matter-of-fact and giving MBS many tips. The mod DOES NOT have any credibility at the moment, as in the past PQ Code was stolen. That got patched up and the next thing we see from MBS is a copy off a PQ level.

Eguy wrote: "But it's when people say things like 'you guys might just have something against him for no reason' in public that problems begin the arise again"
By the way, if you're so angry at HIM for posting it, don't throw crap at ME for defending it.

Nobody was ever 'so angry' about him posting it. The one-word posts are against the rules so the mods are simply telling him not to. You are blowing this bit out of proportion and working yourself up about it.

Eguy wrote: "There's absolutely no problem with disagreeing with someone, but you should be more sure about their stance and argument before you jump to any conclusions"
Well, people are allowed to respond to this topic, aren't they? If I'm wrong about anything, which is certainly possible, just tell me and I'll eat my words.

We have been telling you what we think but you have responded with things like "I'm willing to call a truce, but I don't know if ProMarbler is" and "By the way, if you're so angry at HIM for posting it, don't throw crap at ME for defending it".

Frosty, before you post, just check out my edit please.

Well, fine. I don't think this mod will ever receive the light of day from people, behavior wise, so I must be grateful for all the constructive criticism that they're giving that IS, IN FACT, not a waste of your time. It's letting this mod shine. So, sorry if I haven't been grateful for that, I got a little bit picky. It is good advice, what i said, but what I may have asked for was too much for you all, and now I realize that.

Eguy wrote: EDIT: Did anyone besides us know that the PQ-like side camera angle level was only a test and was not going to stay in the mod?

No, we did not. We saw a MBS member posting a video of a copy off a PQ level. For all we knew, you could have had an arsenal of PQ sidescrolling levels.

"I do not think this mod will ever see the light of day from people, behavior-wise"

The community has absolutely been giving MBS all, if not more than, the constructive criticism it deserves. It stole from PQ and we are still trying to help it.

Eguy wrote: I disagree. Content was fine on his post, and I admit to getting a little worked up over this, but it's worth the effort to make your posts sound nicer, friendlier, and more suggestive, and not sound like you're wasting your time with the mod. I know that's what you were trying to do, because you said "creativity counts " at the end, but it didn't come off that way when you said stuff like "the mod has no credibility right now." We changed the stuff that you mentioned right away. That HAS to count for credibility.

Absolutely, and I'm happy that you took what I had in mind into account. The part that I find worrying is that my post was heavily promoting creativity, and then the PQ controversy occurred, though that's a different discussion for a different time, and in a different place.

Eguy wrote: By the way, if you're so angry at HIM for posting it, don't throw crap at ME for defending it.

See me on Skype when you get a chance, and don't make false accusations like that towards me or anyone else again.

Eguy wrote: Well, people are allowed to respond to this topic, aren't they? If I'm wrong about anything, which is certainly possible, just tell me and I'll eat my words.

Now that is true, and this is more an issue that goes for everyone. If someone is corrected upon something, people should eat their words rather than continue to lie and argue, but that issue has been resolved now...

***

Eguy, I'm not targeting you. I'm not targeting the MBS staff, and I'm not targeting any individuals. These posts are simply meant to be informative and productive for everyone on both sides. In hopes I don't spur up any more controversy on this topic, PM me or see me on Skype if you want to talk to me about this matter (this goes for everyone).

I wish luck to the staff of MBS, and I hope to see something special come out of this.

EDIT: I guess Frosty beat me to it. Oh well.