Marble Blast Super [INCOMPLETE RELEASE]

Aayrl wrote:
Multiplayer has been done, so what's going to make players swarm to play Marble Blast Super over MBP? Is it really worth it to spend a majority of your development time working on a feature that's already been perfected in a different mod? Why not release a series of Custom Multiplayer Levels and focus on more original content for your mod to make it unique?

Exactly. No offense, but I wouldn't even touch MBS's multiplayer - levels however, I'd be interested in playing.

We have been focusing mainly on SinglePlayer. When the mod gets further in development, we'll decide what to do with MultiPlayer.

As the lead (and only) coder for MBS, do you guys have any suggestions for new features?

Anyway, Thanks for the feedback, it should help improve the mod.

I have some good levels that I've made for MBU and MBP (and MBUQ) including some that haven't been shown yet. I'm debating including them in MBS, but I don't want to put in levels that people already played. I'm not sure yet.

As for MBUQ, that is temporarily on hold. I only started that because I was bored and didn't feel like working on MBS or MBU at the time

~ Matt

Well, how many levels were made for this mod in total? Because I have a feeling this may have more levels than MBP...

so you've been making levels for:
MBP
MBU
MBS
MBUQ

This mod = dead

The bigger problem: you're making a new mod WHILE you're heading this current mod, not to mention you're modding MBU actively. It shows absolutely no faith in MBS.

And having levels released for other mods rather than MBS (or exclusive MBS) also questions whether the mod will end up with any good content... as far as I'm seeing you don't have interest in this mod. May as well call it dead.

Frosty, Matan-- Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is my perspective: It seems more like you guys are the ones who don't have faith in MBS. For some reason, new mods always intrigue me no matter what, in particular the levels. So as long as this mod has new levels, I will be interested. And as long as I am interested because of this I am sure there are other people who have the same feelings towards new mods. While you guys raise a point, about working on one mod at a time, what I heard seemed a bit too harsh and discouraging, since I know what Matt and others are capable of, particularly level wise. I'm partial to RD's post, which gave them constructive criticism about levels. These level makers are a work in progress, remember, but if they get some expert advice from someone like RD, their levels can be something people would want to play again and again, for fun and world records. It could also encourage them to work primarily on MBS. Also, is there such thing as a perfect mod? What Matan said seemed more like "pack up, go home, you can't do this," which is not advice in the slightest. Matan seems like someone who should give detailed advice rather than sit and expect all mods to be perfect in every way. If you give this mod team real advice, I believe MBS can be amazing. We're still making WRR's for MBSpace and MBReloaded, and they're certainly not perfect as far as I know of. Then why doubt MBSuper? I'm very sorry if I sound rude in any way, since I respect everyone in this community. I just felt a strong need to address some of the discouragement issues regarding this mod. Also, on a side note, was part of this mod released (i. e. a demo, an early version, etc.)? Or is it still being worked on?

~Eguy

I agree with Eguy-- rather than discouraging people from creating, we should just let them work. In the worst case, they fail and just release all their levels. In the best case, we get a horde of new content to enjoy when they finish. While constructive criticism (like what RD has posted) is beneficial, the straight-out negativity doesn't seek to help anyone.

I'm interested in seeing new levels. I'm just not setting any expectations, seeing as there hasn't been much activity lately. The most recent "progress post" before this one on April 11 was in November of 2014. Just saying that's a lot of time to get something other than 9 levels done. Not trying to put the mod down.

straight-out negativity doesn't seek to help anyone.

If they didn't repeat the exact same mistakes as so many mods (and their leaders) have done in the past, then we would be in a different position and I wouldn't be discouraging them. Listening to HiGuy/Jeff ranting for the last few months doesn't help.

Matan seems like someone who should give detailed advice rather than sit and expect all mods to be perfect in every way.

I did in the past. It ended up useless because not only I was ignored, but so did a few of the community members who pointed the exact same mistakes also ignored. I also don't expect mods to be in perfect in every way, but when mod leaders make more than one mod while their first mod is in progress that doesn't look good based on the history of mods in marble blast.

Likewise not only I but many others repeated numerous times our info and yet this has been ignored by pretty much everyone, including most of the people in this topic.
If they wanted my help they could have asked for that... even when I specifically talked to them (the mod leaders particularly) and personally volunteered to help out. Months ago I even offered info on how it can go better and how levels should be better designed and why the ones they showed off were not good and was completely ignored.

We're still making WRR's for MBSpace and MBReloaded, and they're certainly not perfect as far as I know of.

I'm using those two mods to test for video-only WRRs and they are short mods that can easily be worked on. Also I never said those were perfect.
Reloaded died to lack of decent level creation; not because of community feedback (which was actually positive!). The staff killed it themselves.
Space mostly had youtube info, and what little topics/forums it did have, it had GOOD feedback from the community.

In the worst case, they fail and just release all their levels.

I can count the number of mods that didn't do that (even when they weren't being discouraged) on more than 10 fingers. In fact, here's a list of mods for you.


Mods had community encouragement and died:
Marble Blast Ultimate Quest (before Matt P. there was a mod like that, but it turned out to be a whole new game, and that died anyway)
Marble Blast Plus
Marble Blast Hyper
Marble Blast Opal (ask Jeff for all the reasons)
MarbleBlast Über - HiGuy made it. Holy shit. We actually were in favor of this despite so many mods being made and it ended up being a level pack that doesn't exist anymore except likely HiGuy's computer.
Marble Blast Galaxy - impressed community, died anyway
Marble Blast OldStyle - actually a level pack, I for one super wanted to see it out, and it died.
Marble Blast Emerald 2 - ask HiGuy/Jeff how did that go. I'm putting this here because in the topic it had positive reception. It then had a 2nd topic revival by Luke and burned down big time.
Marble Blast Adventure - Legend of the Seven Gems - all the stuff moved to elite? not sure what happened to all the content.
Project Dragon - ??? did this turn out to become MBPU?


Mods that had no attention due to not enough info for community decision, or were supported/discouraged slightly:
Marble Blast REVOLUTION
Marble Blast Diamond
Marble Blast Neon
Marble Blast (no name - 2?) - turned out to become MBFuture and that had both community support and despite that still released as incomplete
Marble Blast Crystal - little info, said demo is coming out in 1 week, nothing happened
Marble Blast Deluxe - had nothing but general info on it, still received "good luck" for the community though
Marble Blast Xtreme - as above
Marble Blast Universal
Marble Blast Universe - as Deluxe/Crystal
Marble Blast Megas
Marble Blast Sapphire
Marble Blast Turbo - Ian V. mainly encouraged and discouraged
Marble Blast Clouds - actually just a mod to MBP's skyboxes, not an actual mod.


Mods that were frowned on:
Marble Blast Light / MarbleBlast Worlds - it came during the "mod explosion" of 2009-2011, and being one of the 20 or so mods that were started out and died nearly instantly, the community already decided it was going to die. It DID have some staff on it, but they all quit on it. The mod was then remade as MarbleBlast Worlds and that received GOOD community support, but died anyway. It also had a release but I have no copy of this.
Marble Blast Black - CoolPokeDude did it and yeah, turned out bad.
Marble Blast Darkness - a download link to the installation instructions text file???
Marble Blast dzemal - best mod ever. Uses MBP 1.04 graphics. I didn't even know 1.04 existed. showed a picture of battlecube and that's it. Some people did say good luck but that thread is funny.
Marble Blast Hyper - also goes under the community encouragment section, but also been frowned on
Marble Blast Zircon - started by Jeff's brother, Greg. That didn't turn out well with some inside angry posts.


There are also mods that DID release:
Marble Blast Advanced - it did not fulfil its original goals, staff got lazy, quit on it...
Marble Blast Emerald - HiGuy pulled it through...
Marble Blast Elite - a demo is out... and that's about it.
Marble Blast Revived - very good community reception for a mod mainly made by one person
Marble Blast Space - mentioned above
Marble Blast Reloaded - mentioned above


And the inprogress mods:
Marble Blast Fubar - Community support still up, will release at some day
PlatinumQuest - As with fubar. Even if incomplete, it WILL be released.


Note that not all mods are listed as the Vault/Archives did not exist back then so topics were deleted instead.

...now if the people that did work on the above mods released what they had when they died.

Just had a very nice conversation with Matan about his point. Long read, but worth it.

Matan: oh my god
Matan: seriously
Matan: you guys want this
Matan: ill do this
HiGuy: ?
HiGuy: oh that thread
HiGuy: yeah
HiGuy: you need to stop pissing in their faces
Matan: here
Matan: i was about to post
HiGuy: if they're shit, they're shit
Matan: let me post this to you
HiGuy: that's their problem
HiGuy: if they release, then we get stuff, regardless of quality
Matan: right now im being outed with incorrect info, im not gonna let that go
HiGuy: if they don't, they don't
Matan: here before you go at me further, have a read at my post
Matan: alright?
HiGuy: ok
HiGuy: fair point

straight-out negativity doesn't seek to help anyone.

If they didn't repeat the exact same mistakes as so many mods (and their leaders) have done in the past, then we would be in a different position and I wouldn't be discouraging them. Listening to HiGuy/Jeff ranting for the last few months doesn't help.

HiGuy: i see that people previously have made the same mistakes, but people learn much better if they experience this
HiGuy: because obviously telling them hasn't done anything
HiGuy: but continue

Matan seems like someone who should give detailed advice rather than sit and expect all mods to be perfect in every way.

I did in the past. It ended up useless because not only I was ignored, but so did a few of the community members who pointed the exact same mistakes also ignored. I also don't expect mods to be in perfect in every way, but when mod leaders make more than one mod while their first mod is in progress that doesn't look good based on the history of mods in marble blast.

Likewise not only I but many others repeated numerous times our info and yet this has been ignored by pretty much everyone, including most of the people in this topic.
If they wanted my help they could have asked for that... even when I specifically talked to them (the mod leaders particularly) and personally volunteered to help out. Months ago I even offered info on how it can go better and how levels should be better designed and why the ones they showed off were not good and was completely ignored.

HiGuy: mk i see your point
HiGuy: you offered help (source?) and they refused to listen
Matan: chat logs on LBs and probably over skype somewhere
HiGuy: in that case, you're justified in ignoring them, but not really in demeaning them
Matan: but i did tell them why previous levels were bad
HiGuy: yes
HiGuy: but there's a difference between saying "they disregarded my advice" and "their mod is shit"
Matan: i specifically remember telling matt p why levels were bad and how to improve them and what people are looking for and what they shouldn't do
Matan: "their mod is shit" is out of context. it's going very bad with the current level design and the fact matt p. is doing 3 mods at once, and ive seen this in the past in 2009-2011 and it turned out disasterous
Matan: jeff is still a living example of being in so many mods, quitting lots, and the whole thing going into nopeville to the max
HiGuy: jeff is a dramatized case as he can't finish anything
HiGuy: although i see your point
Matan: but he WASN'T the only one
HiGuy: yes
HiGuy: and matt even mentioned that he was holding off on the other mods
HiGuy: "As for MBUQ, that is temporarily on hold. I only started that because I was bored and didn't feel like working on MBS or MBU at the time "

We're still making WRR's for MBSpace and MBReloaded, and they're certainly not perfect as far as I know of.

I'm using those two mods to test for video-only WRRs and they are short mods that can easily be worked on. Also I never said those were perfect.
Reloaded died to lack of decent level creation; not because of community feedback (which was actually positive!). The staff killed it themselves.
Space mostly had youtube info, and what little topics/forums it did have, it had GOOD feedback from the community.

In the worst case, they fail and just release all their levels.

I can count the number of mods that didn't do that (even when they weren't being discouraged) on more than 10 fingers. In fact, here's a list of mods for you.

HiGuy: ok point taken on that last thing
HiGuy: i was sorta in the wrong to say that
HiGuy: but theoretically, they still could release their shit

Mods had community encouragement and died:
Marble Blast Ultimate Quest (before Matt P. there was a mod like that, but it turned out to be a whole new game, and that died anyway)
Marble Blast Plus
Marble Blast Hyper
Marble Blast Opal (ask Jeff for all the reasons)
MarbleBlast Über - HiGuy made it. Holy shit. We actually were in favor of this despite so many mods being made and it ended up being a level pack that doesn't exist anymore except likely HiGuy's computer.
Marble Blast Galaxy - impressed community, died anyway
Marble Blast OldStyle - actually a level pack, I for one super wanted to see it out, and it died.
Marble Blast Emerald 2 - ask HiGuy/Jeff how did that go. I'm putting this here because in the topic it had positive reception. It then had a 2nd topic revival by Luke and burned down big time.
Marble Blast Adventure - Legend of the Seven Gems - all the stuff moved to elite? not sure what happened to all the content.
Project Dragon - ??? did this turn out to become MBPU?


Mods that had no attention due to not enough info for community decision, or were supported/discouraged slightly:
Marble Blast REVOLUTION
Marble Blast Diamond
Marble Blast Neon
Marble Blast (no name - 2?) - turned out to become MBFuture and that had both community support and despite that still released as incomplete
Marble Blast Crystal - little info, said demo is coming out in 1 week, nothing happened
Marble Blast Deluxe - had nothing but general info on it, still received "good luck" for the community though
Marble Blast Xtreme - as above
Marble Blast Universal
Marble Blast Universe - as Deluxe/Crystal
Marble Blast Megas
Marble Blast Sapphire
Marble Blast Turbo - Ian V. mainly encouraged and discouraged
Marble Blast Clouds - actually just a mod to MBP's skyboxes, not an actual mod.


Mods that were frowned on:
Marble Blast Light / MarbleBlast Worlds - it came during the "mod explosion" of 2009-2011, and being one of the 20 or so mods that were started out and died nearly instantly, the community already decided it was going to die. It DID have some staff on it, but they all quit on it. The mod was then remade as MarbleBlast Worlds and that received GOOD community support, but died anyway. It also had a release but I have no copy of this.
Marble Blast Black - CoolPokeDude did it and yeah, turned out bad.
Marble Blast Darkness - a download link to the installation instructions text file???
Marble Blast dzemal - best mod ever. Uses MBP 1.04 graphics. I didn't even know 1.04 existed. showed a picture of battlecube and that's it. Some people did say good luck but that thread is funny.
Marble Blast Hyper - also goes under the community encouragment section, but also been frowned on
Marble Blast Zircon - started by Jeff's brother, Greg. That didn't turn out well with some inside angry posts.


There are also mods that DID release:
Marble Blast Advanced - it did not fulfil its original goals, staff got lazy, quit on it...
Marble Blast Emerald - HiGuy pulled it through...
Marble Blast Elite - a demo is out... and that's about it.
Marble Blast Revived - very good community reception for a mod mainly made by one person
Marble Blast Space - mentioned above
Marble Blast Reloaded - mentioned above


And the inprogress mods:
Marble Blast Fubar - Community support still up, will release at some day
PlatinumQuest - As with fubar. Even if incomplete, it WILL be released.


Note that not all mods are listed as the Vault/Archives did not exist back then so topics were deleted instead.

...now if the people that did work on the above mods released what they had when they died.

HiGuy: sweet jesus that's a lot of mods
Matan: i told you
Matan: i fucking am telling you
HiGuy: uh huh
Matan: i am not pulling this shit
Matan: there were a fuckload of mods
Matan: ive been through the 2009-2011 explosion
Matan: i saw at least 5 mods where their leaders were in at least TWO mods
Matan: at least 10 of them had staff that were in at least TWO mods
Matan: we have a damn history and it's a terrible one
HiGuy: indeed
Matan: I am saying super is going to become next if he continues in the way of 4 mods at once
HiGuy: perfectly reasonable assumption
HiGuy: although it's nowhere near "dead"
Matan: the levels are bad, I want to see them better by me saying make levels for public consumption and THEN use that feedback to get BETTER levels specific for Super
HiGuy: ok
Matan: however im constantly being ignored on THAT point
Matan: somethign that has been reiterated since 2009
HiGuy: so we've laid out that the mods don't actually CONTRIBUTE anything to the community
HiGuy: but do they take all that much out?
Matan: by nobody, pablo, oaky, myself, pf, andrew, rokoshu, tech warrio, do you want me to go on?
Matan: if all the people who worked on these mods
HiGuy: dw i've read the mod-killing megathread
Matan: worked as a single entity mod
Matan: we'd have more mods out
HiGuy: you see
Matan: more levels
Matan: but they don't
HiGuy: the issue is
HiGuy: not that mods are hard to create
Matan: they go on multiple mods instead
HiGuy: but that intermediate/advanced levels are
Matan: matt p. is doing the exact same things!!!
HiGuy: if they all joined together
HiGuy: you'd get 10,000 learning to rolls
HiGuy: 10,000 learn to jumps
HiGuy: 10,000 learn to collect gems
Matan: NO!
HiGuy: and maybe 10 actually good intermediate levels
HiGuy: and yes, I realize that he's doing similarly
Matan: what im saying is if we had those 15 people actually working together we'd see an actual mod with reasonable levels and not 10000 of whatever it is like we have right now when people make their own mods like in 09-11
HiGuy: but if you look at most of these dead mods
HiGuy: you'll notice a pattern
HiGuy: 20ish beginner levels
HiGuy: maybe 3 intermediate levels
Matan: actually
HiGuy: and maybe 3 advanced
Matan: i checked the topics
Matan: i didnt just pull the names out
Matan: you are wrong on that
HiGuy: ok
Matan: they had plenty of int/adv/exp in plans
Matan: it wasnt beg only
HiGuy: in planning, not in actuality
Matan: beg was done first in actuality yes
HiGuy: that's the issue
HiGuy: but how about this
Matan: but some had int/adv done first, not beg
HiGuy: instead of going nuts about how people didn't create any of these advanced levels
Matan: also im gonna post what i gave you
HiGuy: why don't we (shocker) ask them for their unreleased progress
Matan: since clearly ive got good reasoning behind it
HiGuy: yes
HiGuy: your reasoning is pretty good, but there are still points in the opposition
Matan: I agree and I don't disagree with them, but based on my experience of marble blast mods this isn't going well for them
HiGuy: indeed
Matan: if it finishes i want to see a full release
Matan: any incomplete release is death to me and another 1 that joins the history
HiGuy: i agree that they are not looking very well in terms of completion
HiGuy: but this extreme negativity doesn't help them at all
HiGuy: yes, they will probably fail
HiGuy: yes, they will most likely fail
HiGuy: but constantly showering them in this negative "you'll never succeed" talk isn't going to help at all
HiGuy: say what you will about their prospects
Matan: here's me saying: "if you're going to work on 4 fucking mods, it's dead"
Matan: if you work on 1 fucking mod, you're good
Matan: thats all im saying
HiGuy: that's not really true either
Matan: the moment he starts doing more than 1 mod, WHICH BASED ON THE HISTORY, it dies... because people damn do that
HiGuy: i can name countless examples of people who worked on 1 mod only, and it died
Matan: and i can count several examples of people who worked on several mods all at once and they all died
HiGuy: yes, working on more than 1 is worse
HiGuy: very much so
Matan: then here's me telling him STOP THAT
Matan: now will he listen?
HiGuy: well then
Matan: fyi
Matan: one more thing re: several mods
HiGuy: mk
Matan: when mod creators started new mods (IN THE PAST) the mods they were making (first ones) were dying fast
Matan: and it all went to death very soon
Matan: me saving super is by telling matt p to stop doing 4 mods and either concentrate on super only or you're letting everyone on staff kill it
Matan: because if they see matt p doing other mods and not contributing to super they aren't getting the encouragment needed to finish the mod
HiGuy: 100% agree with that
HiGuy: i can see what you're trying to tell them
HiGuy: what you're trying to tell Matt *
Matan: im saying it wrong in the topic but it's exactly what im saying here right now
Matan: he is losing faith, he's doing other mods
HiGuy: but the issue is that it comes out as negativity towards the whole mod in general, not towards the act of working on multiple mods
Matan: super is going to die if he doesn't get a good slap right now
Matan: i specifically outed matt
Matan: not the mod's staff
HiGuy: when you say "this mod is dead", I know that you're saying "this mod will die if you keep working on multiple ones", but it comes off as "everyone on this mod has stopped caring and it's effectively shit"
Matan: and it will happen very soon if matt doesn't get his shit together
HiGuy: yes
Matan: so both sentences are correct
HiGuy: the second one not yet
Matan: no but it is already on the way based on history
HiGuy: because there are people currently working on super who still care
HiGuy: so rather than TELL them that they've already failed
HiGuy: warn them that they will fail IF they don't start concentrating on one mod
Matan: and i love seeing that, but if the LEADER, the ONLY CODER, is not doing that, how good a mod is that

If they wanted my help they could have asked for that... even when I specifically talked to them (the mod leaders particularly) and personally volunteered to help out. Months ago I even offered info on how it can go better and how levels should be better designed and why the ones they showed off were not good and was completely ignored.

Matan, who and where exactly did you ask to test, because I never recalled hearing that message before.

Also, after listening to everyone (mostly matan's!) ideas, I agree we should release our mod as a DEMO and get some feedback on it so we can improve the mod and it wont be as mediocre. The staff and I have it planned. We should have a DEMO by Friday.

I think you missed matan's point...in its entirety. You should be making custom levels, not a mod. lol.

Here's my perspective, and i'll keep it short. As of right now, I (among others) don't see a reason to be excited about MBS, and if there isn't any hype built up about the mod, who's really going to want to play it anyways? Fubar has been in production since the Jurassic period, and yet we're still interested in it because it has innovative features and new forms of gameplay that we haven't seen before. This is where just about every mod since MBA falls flat, and unfortunately this is no exception in my eyes. If you're just making levels and a texture pack (which is all we've been shown so far excluding multiplayer, which honestly nobody cares about either), please, PLEASE just release levels and a texture pack, not a 'mod'. You will save yourself from a huge wave of disappointment.

Aayrl wrote: Some simple advice; be original and be creative. Think outside of the box.

Matthieu Parizeau wrote: As the lead (and only) coder for MBS, do you guys have any suggestions for new features?

Asking the community for new feature ideas is hardly being original or creative.

RollCage wrote: Fubar has been in production since the Jurassic period, and yet we're still interested in it because it has innovative features and new forms of gameplay that we haven't seen before. This is where just about every mod since MBA falls flat, and unfortunately this is no exception in my eyes.

The secret to a decent [strike]mod[/strike] Video Game is having unique gameplay elements (seriously, I've been in the industry for a while, take it from someone whose had several non successful games and several very successful games). If your players have no new mechanics or features to fiddle with, then what makes your mod different than a series of custom levels with a different UI and sounds?

Think about all of the video games you've played in the past three years. Which ones are you still playing? Why are you still playing those games? What about those games makes you pick up your game controller a few weeks from now and have a good time? What elements make you turn off your gaming console? Think about these critical elements and how you might be able to incorporate some of these features into your mod (or game) to create a truly unique and memorable experience for the player.

"The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance of things, but their inward significance." -Aristotle

~Aayrl

Right now, over half of the active community has chimed into this topic. Surely, you must have considered that everyone in the community is judging you right now. If you've read the above posts, you see that many have clearly voiced their opinions, and yet you continue to progress like a mod is the only way to go. This mod lacks both planning and organization, and the leader, as I hear, doesn't even have the mod at all. If this "great" mod is so great, then how come the leader isn't even able to be involved?

There are tons of things you can do besides make a mod. Whirligig showed how features were far more important that artwork. And "mis mods" expands the possibility further of what you can do in a simple custom level. I can't remember the last time I saw a "level pack" on these forums.

~PM

I dont even know whether to continue leading this mod or whether to quit. The amount of controversy its caused and peoples opinions has kinda taken a toll on the mod altogether. However, I do want to see good features as a leader and besides, PM is actually right, a mod isn't the only way to go, but I wanted to start one because it felt good to be part of a team that had some talent eg. Endy with the graphics, Matt with the code etc.

RC, I think you're missing the point. I SAY LET THEM DO THEIR WORK. Because whenever I see a new mod I feel like even playing the levels is a bigger significance than just a new level pack. Why? Because there is a new set of beginner levels, which are levels like how to roll, how to pick gems, how to wall hit, etc. and those are always fun to play in new ways. It's like starting over with the progression of levels in a new way. Another reason is that it is a new mod and when you see a new mod, you always expect many speedruns of it out there, and you want to be in one of them on YouTube. I disagree that you "might as well just release a level pack." Level packs are random levels. Mods have introductions of how to play. They have beginner, intermediate, and advanced levels. And some bonus customs. Aayrl: I liked what you said, trying to be friendly about it and giving some REAL ADVICE FOR ONCE. Ending it with a fabulous quote by a fabulous Greek philosopher was just...fabulous. (I'm half Greek by the way). PM: Here's what you said: "if this 'great' mod is so great, then how come the leader isn't able to be involved?" Really? That's not advice. Come on, you're a moderator, and I'm quite sure you know what it's like to have some thing called REAL LIFE getting in the way of MB. StewMan, I think this mod does have great talent and you should continue, unless the community is addicted to giving disencouragement instead of real advice. If this community gives the mod team some real advice now, that talent that Stew was talking about can really shine. If you guys decide to quit after all I blame the community for not backing this team at all. I'm sorry that this post isn't giving advice itself, I'm most certainly not in the position to give advice to anyone. I've never done graphic design, level making, or anything of the sort (even though I play Buzzmusic's levels and have been studying the ways of Buzzmusic for a long time ).

On a side note, Endy, are you the same person as EnderCraft1? Just curious

~Eguy

This is completely up to Stew, since he did start MBS. If he were not to quit and if he were to stay asa part of the staff, he would probably be a level builder or a graphies designer depending on what he wants. It would be nice if he could stay because he started MBS and we're not going to finish this without him. My guess is that he actuaally hasn't had much say in this since his computer's broken or something from what I've heard, so it may be hard for him to chat with us through Skype (though you can get Skype on your device. Pretty easy to get!). There may be a couple brand new things we might add to the game (since I do have a couple ideas). Even though MBS is definitely not at its peak right now, we're still working on some things here and there.

Also (just because I might say this), what made Happy Roll so "good"? I haven't seen much that's completely different.

Another thing I forgot to say in my post that there were plenty of other mods that were just levels and a new UI, and they were utterly successful. For example, MBA.

Very well, I shall continue being leader.

Just make sure you're more active than you have been (after you fix your computer). We're running low on Expert levels and we need you and James to fill in for that part.

Eguy wrote:
On a side note, Endy, are you the same person as EnderCraft1? Just curious

~Eguy

Yes, I am.

My post wasn't meant to be a "this is shit, give up" post, though it was meant to be brutally honest. What we're saying is that we encourage originality and creativity. Not once did I say, "this is shit, give up," because it's not what I believe what the team should do. All i'm saying is that every successful mod but one (Fubar) has followed the exact same concept, and every single mod we lose interest because of it. What i'm saying is keep working, but heavily consider implementing new ideas and features or else you'll risk losing most of the support you have.

In my perception, It is okay to criticize but you need balance or Equilibrium to throw your criticisms. Too much criticisms can discourage them. For the side of the MBS Devs, MBSuper does need to improve its criteria of making a full mod such as Creativity, Content and also Manpower and they should accept criticisms that can improve your creation. Also, you need Community Support to boost up the game's progress. The Assaulting of these criticisms made me curious and perplexed that I should write my own perception for MBSuper.

legenda1236 wrote: Too much criticisms can discourage them.

That's on them. Constructive criticism is supposed to help them, and that's what we're aiming to do - help.

Unfortunately, that doesn't work. The reality is that people will not heed to the things someone says until they experience those things themselves. And that isn't even exclusively in regards to this situation. If I wanted to build an amusement park, but everyone told me why it was a bad idea and how unpractical it would be to accomplish, do you think that will stop me from pursuing something that I believe so strongly in? If I have no idea how hard it is to accomplish, should I not attempt to reach that goal before coming to my own conclusion based on experience? And how can someone relate to what you're saying until they are in those shoes? My point here is that we should let them do what they want until they can relate to what we are saying. Let them decide how to continue.

If they decide to listen to what we're telling them, great. If they do not, fine. Either way, the staff of this mod will come to terms with something, but it will be based on experience in working on the mod. You can't tell them to stop for whatever reason, because that won't make any sense from their perspective. Granted, they seem to have gotten measurable progress since conception, and even went so far as to compose a trailer. This is where criticism is necessary. Ultimately, though, they will do what they think is best - the mod isn't theirs if they aren't the ones who developed it, if you can understand me here.

But, to Matt and the rest of the staff, it's crucial to take into account that the things we are telling you are based off of our experience, much like your own. It isn't like we give you advice that equates to nothing; we're trying to show you what happens when you don't prepare properly. Making a mod is an extremely delicate thing - it almost never ends well. That isn't an opinion; that's a fact. That list of mods above should be a pretty comprehensive representation of that fact. Our primary concern is in your success; we want your mod to turn out well, but we've noticed some things that, based on history, have driven many mods to their death. It's true that some of us seem rather attacking, but you really shouldn't take it too personal. It's not like ad hominem attacks or anything like that. We just want you to consider some facts.

Also, last thing for all staff of this mod: You shouldn't make yourself do something you don't want to do. If you really do feel as though the mod is becoming less of an interest, let it go. If you are still really in tune with what you are doing, then by all means keep going! At some point, it no longer matters whether it turns out good or bad; it's the fact that you accomplished something and finished a project that you believed in.

legenda1236 wrote: The Assaulting of these criticisms made me curious and perplexed that I should write my own perception for MBSuper.

The disposition of this conversation makes me curious and perplexed as to why you haven't already done that.

Oh so I understood now. So you are criticizing them with a regular basis due to low quality of Game Criteria. I hope that the Devs can improve their experience.

legenda1236 wrote: I hope that the Devs can improve their experience.

We probably should and hopefully will.

Just in case one wants an update (though I assume no one wants one),
MBSuper is not dead yet. It's about 99% dead, but some people are still working on it. We have a definite resign from Endy, and there may be another one. I can't remember
At the moment, MBSuper is going along very, very slowly. Matt's been saying something about a couple new levels, and we dunno about everyone else.
This may after all get abandoned, this may not (most likely will be abandoned). But this is just a quick update for you guys taat you all probably don't care about.
I don't want to hear any more complaints. If you're not on our side, sit down, and stop talking. We will take any compliments or any constructive critisism.

EDIT BY JEFF: i accidentally thanked his post. :'(

Have you ever considered releasing (most of) everything to the public? What are your thoughts about that?

ok, some critisism
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• Don't include multiplayer. No one will want to play mp in MBS when MBP already has it. Making mp levels is perfectly fine, but what you're doing right now is a perfect example of when you want too much.
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• Don't steal. I haven't seen all of MBS but I can already see that you have blatantly copied levels and the UI. Being original is the way to go as it will make people excited for the mod and they will want to play it. Stealing levels will just make people disrespect you. And as RC said, there is no hype at all for MBS. Had you been original like whirligig's MBPU then people would have been hyped for the release.
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• Don't bite off more than you can chew. How many of you have worked on a full mod before? Not many I guess. The smartest thing to do would have been to do a level pack first, which leads me to my next point
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• Actually listen to what people say. If you had made a level pack before you worked on a mod you could have received useful critisism that would have helped in your level making in MBS. And I know you don't want to hear people complain, which is understandable as it can be very annoying and demotivating; however you should still listen to what people such as, for example Matan, say. They have worked on mods before and can contribute a lot.
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• Better organisation. It was pure comdey gold when we found out that Stew didn't even have MBS. You need to have clear roles in the making of the mod. You need to know who is the leader, who does the coding, who does the level making etc. From what I've seen you haven't been organised at all. And remember to communicate with eachother all the time about what's going on so no one thinks that everything is going smoothly when there actually is a problem that needs to be solved.

  We have a definite resign from Endy, and there may be another one. I can't remember

  This is a perfect example of how you don't communicate, had you actually communicated with eachother you would know that for sure
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• Have a goal with the mod. It seems to me like you started on this mod just cause you wanted to create a mod. It seems like you didn't have any inspiration or theme that drove the mod forward.

Kalle29 wrote:

• Don't include multiplayer. No one will want to play mp in MBS when MBP already has it. Making mp levels is perfectly fine, but what you're doing right now is a perfect example of when you want too much.
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I'd like to counter this and say that, if you guys want to include multiplayer, then go ahead. Just know that it is no small commitment, and that you should focus on the singleplayer gameplay much more than multiplayer. Realize that trying to be overambitious with the various features will just spell out your doom. Pick one or two things (hunt mode or something similar) and do them well, rather than just creating 20 sub-par features.